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Comment by xedarius | Hacker News Reader

I hope Amazon do something great here. Delivery firms are all awful. They only have one job, get the package to me. So why are you delivering it at 11am when you know I'm at work? And then again tomorrow, and again, and then leave it at your depot where the onus is on me to collect it.

Why not deliver it at 7pm when I'm home from work? If supermarkets can manage it (and delivery is their secondary business) - I'm sure a delivery company should be able to pull this kind of service out the bag.

For once I'm rooting for team Amazon.

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> So why are you delivering it at 11am when you know I'm at work?

The driver has a 200-250 stop route optimized for efficiency, they attempt delivery when near your house. At 7pm a driver has been on the clock for over 10 hours; this is unlikely to change due to air delivery commitments. Over peak season 14 hour days (DoT limit) is very common, with a 14-hour delivery window it's simply not possible to get everyone's packages to them in the evening.

I wonder what the actual cost-difference would be to pay 7 guys working 2-hour 5pm-7pm days instead of every one guy working 14-hour days.

If it's too high, I assume things like drone delivery will eventually replace deliverymen since they are more likely to not mind working evenings, nights, and weekends.

> I wonder what the actual cost-difference would be to pay 7 guys working 2-hour 5pm-7pm days instead of every one guy working 14-hour days.

It's less about the guys, and more about the support infrastructure required for more delivery vehicles (even rented ones via the guys' salaries), insurance, more loading bays to get 7x more vehicles ready, more loading staff (or robots) to load 7x more vehicles, etc.

They'd need to maintain seven trucks instead of one truck, with the much larger support system that would entail. Also they'd need more people working internal functions like HR due to the higher headcount. It's a lot more expensive than just the driver's salary.

While the drones won't mind working at night or on weekends, I would certainly mind the relentless, high-pitched noise of drones delivering groceries and the latest new tech gadgets to my neighbours when I try to sleep or relax.

Honestly, I dread the thought of hundreds or thousands of drones buzzing around the city on a daily basis. It's already pretty bad at many touristic spots because everybody needs their own little aerial video that nobody will ever watch.

Yes, convenience demands that jobs be organized into 10 or 14 hour weeks. At least we can be confident that the people taking such shitty jobs have lots of leverage and will be well compensated!

Maybe a 7-9pm shift could make sense. A 5-7pm shift would result in drivers sitting in rush hour traffic and delivering very few packages. Or they could try a 5-7am shift. I'm sure no one would mind an early doorbell.

Amazon Logistics has been running for quite a while in Germany, and for me it's looks like it's a disaster. Every order is like a lottery. If your package gets assigned to DHL, you're almost guaranteed to get it on time. If you get Amazon Logistics, you should be happy if it shows up at all.

so far I've yet to have anything lost by Amazon Logistics, however it is almost comical how they deliver the package.

A person shows up and rings the bell for a solid 10 seconds. I buzz them in, then they practically throw the package from the elevator door saying "Tschussi!" as the door closes.

OK, I get it...no signature. that's fine. but you couldn't look like you were in more of a rush if you tried.

my guess is they're applying drone like KPIs to humans and it doesn't look very humane.

> my guess is they're applying drone like KPIs to humans and it doesn't look very humane.

That sounds like a very Amazon-esque thing to do.

See for me it's the other way around. With DHL who knows when it'll arrive or if the driver will even attempt to deliver your item. (Currently, I have the problem of DHL claims something was delivered yet the front office says it wasn't.) DHL massively overwork their drivers, which results in them having far too many packages to deliver, therefore just end up dropping them off at a local post office for pick up.

Amazon Logistics, it arrives constantly. Also in the UK Amazon Logistics even deliver prime items on a Sunday - also in the UK they send a lot of items with a few amazingly crap delivery service so when you get Amazon Logistics, DPD, or Royal Mail, it's happy days.

For valuable items I would gladly pay extra for DPD delivery!

Note to amazon employees who may be watching - not really!

I haven't had experience with Amazon Logistics, but I've had (literally nothing but) lost packages and a multi-week delay with DHL in Croatia and Montenegro. Of three packages delivered, only one arrived (after two weeks of "customs inspection" -- it was a replacement laptop cord from Amazon) and it was addressed to me but the contents were what I assume were someone else's birthday gifts, wrapped and everything. It felt like they had opened my package for inspection and someone else's box, and just forgot what went in which box.

Calling DHL was no help (it didn't seem like they were a customer-facing company; it was my first exposure to them and they sounded super confused that a person-not-a-business would be calling to find a delayed package), as they just told me the driver tried to deliver and they'd look into where the package was each time and get back to me (which they never did).

When they started in the UK the experience was similar but it has improved a lot now. Next day delivery is pretty reliable, even on a Sunday.

The one frustrating bottleneck in the process is amazon's.

'Preparing for dispatch' is an all too common message that often means your order is not going to be sent for a couple of days - if at all.

To get around it you could sometimes cancel and immediately re-order but they seem to have closed that loophole of late?

Also in Germany, I much prefer Amazon Logistics. If I’m not home, they’ll leave the parcel either with neighbours (multi-tenant house) or just in front of my door with them taking the risk (and they’ll happily send something again if it gets lost, happened twice so far). This way, I essentially always get the parcel the same day it was supposed to arrive. With DHL, they often don’t ring the bell, put the parcel back into the van and then put it in some post office (available from 2pm the next day), the office open from 9am and 5km away from my commute. If I allowed DHL to place them at the door of my flat, I would have to take the risk of someone stealing it.

The fact that one particular DHL driver routinely unloads his parcels onto the cycle lane every morning doesn’t help my opinion of that company either.

> Delivery firms are all awful.

Agreed, though I usually find the "real" postal service to be significantly less awful than the various parcel services. They are more able/willing to put packages into my mailbox, and if they do mess up the delivery, the post office is usually closer than a parcel service depot out in a remote corner of a remote suburb.

In fact, one of the reasons I prefer ordering from Amazon directly as opposed to most other online shops, or third-party shops selling through Amazon, is that I know that Amazon will send my stuff using the standard postal service. (Or at least, it used to be that way.)

You mileage will vary according to your country's postal service, of course.

Seller fulfilled Prime is the same as well. Even though they ship from their own warehouses, they are required to ship the package is the same timeframe (defined by seller), and use Amazon's negotiated rates with USPS and UPS.

Yep, just like taxi drivers, no one has any sympathy whatsoever for these logistics companies.

My gripe is that every package I receive, is from abroad. Every single time, fedex (ups, dhl, ...) ask me for the exact same information (address, eori number, ...) even if I have an account with them, they don't know this information about me, even though I told them last week. I thought a logistics company might have a better handle on their processes. But none of them do!

The worst is that they don't tell you when the package will be delivered. It could be at any time during the day. Usually when I got out to buy bread, or when I'm taking a shower.

Why not get it delivered to work?

> Why not deliver it at 7pm when I'm home from work?

Maybe because most people would like to get deliveries outside of normal working hours, but you can't (and shouldn't) force all delivery people to work outside normal working hours?

Agreed, why not let me choose though.

I think their comment meant that you'd be choosing not just for you, but you would also be making that choice for the employees that had to deliver your stuff. The employees would still need to cover a diverse area and thus they'd need nearly the same number of employees to cover after-hours delivery.

Though, maybe there is some sort of potential market there. Get your stuff shipped to a drop location and they will deliver it to you at your convenience.

or even better - let everyone involved choose.

by everyone I mean the employer (which is also the product/service provider), the employees and the customers.

if none of the employees will be willing to get $x for working at evening/night, then an increase in salary for those hours might solve the issue .

how much to increase will depend upon supply and demand.

if none of the customers want a night delivery then there's no need for that anyway, and the employer won't even bother trying to find a solution.

if only a small amount of customers want a night delivery - then the employer might setup a solution where you need to pay 1.5x of the regular price in order for it to be profitable enough for the employer and the employees.

if most customers want a night delivery - then the employer will need to make large adjustments in order to fulfill its customers' needs, or some other competitor will fill the gap.

With a higher "overtime" price? Would be ok by me.

You can absolutely force them. But you shouldn't.

> you can't (and shouldn't) force all delivery people to work outside normal working hours

Ever been to a restaurant or bar in the evening or on a weekend? Ever taken a bus/train/flight in the evening or on a weekend? Congratulations, you have "forced" people to provide services to you "outside normal working hours".

It's completely normal and absolutely acceptable for infrastructure to be provided at "odd" hours. Obviously, all those people must be paid extra for work outside "normal" hours. Personally, I would gladly pay more for a delivery I am more likely to actually receive.

Yes I go to restaurants, and I pay a hefty extra for the service compared to the same products bought in a supermarket. Instead, when I buy online, I almost always get (and search for) free delivery.

LOL at the downvoters.

> when I buy online, I almost always get (and search for) free delivery

Me too, but that's mainly because the more expensive options are worse, in my experience. For example, "free" delivery by mail into my actual mailbox vs. "premium" delivery with a parcel service forcing me to be at home an entire day on which they might come by. I would pay extra for a premium service if it were actually better.

(Agreed with your LOL at the downvoters.)

No, you don't. You only pay the servers, what about the kitchen staff?

>Obviously, all those people must be paid extra for work outside "normal" hours

Amazon isn't likely to pay employees anything extra for working outside of "normal" hours, though.

There are laws about that. I would guess those laws are the reason that other delivery firms don't offer evening delivery, but I don't know if Amazon might try and get away with it.

But by buying from Amazon you force IT staff to wait on pager-duty, and warehouse staff to works nights, and lorry drivers and pilots to work in the wee small hours. And many more I've overlooked.

So why do the last-mile delivery drivers get a break?

Because they have unions to protect them.

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