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Comment by emodendroket | Hacker News Reader

It is truly shocking how slow the recovery is.

FEMA is used to dropping massive quantities of supplies "at the doorstep" and relies on local infrastructure to distribute it.

Apparently there are 10,000 containers in port but no way to distribute the goods. No drivers, no gas for trucks, and no passable roads to drive on.

You can't rebuilt the islands electrical grid in a couple weeks, when first you have to rebuild the roads, which you can't build because there's no one there to build them because there's no food or water.

I'd say the devastation is truly shocking. It's not particularly shocking that the recovery is just getting started and that they are facing absolutely enourmous logistical problems compounded by the pre-existing state and very poor readiness for this level of event.

Where are you getting your assessment of the road damage?

I am unsure, but this site has been excellent for tracking progress of other indicators.

http://www.status.pr/

This is a very good source and runs off of mobile and desktop nicely to my surprise. Please anyone take a moment and donate even if its $5. It could be you or your family next time in need (hope not)

Just quoting CNN, NPR, etc.

The Puerto Rico Federal Affairs Administration tells NPR that the government is working with the truck driver's union to find a solution for driving with downed power lines and damaged roads, and the Department of Defense says it has sent teams to work on clearing blocked streets.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/09/28/554297787/...

No drivers, no gas for trucks, and no passable roads to drive on.

Which is what the Army, Coast Guard, and Marines -- not to mention all those gold bars in Fort Knox -- are for.

If the current administration wanted to flex every available muscle to help the people of Puerto Rico, it would. But very clearly it doesn't.

I would encourage you take a few minutes to read about the extent of actual efforts undertaken, starting days before landfall, to manage this disaster.

DoD has in fact taken over responsibility for local management of disaster response. I couldn't find a MSM source but you can Google Translate this [1] - god help me I had to find the link on /r/the_donald.

[1] - https://www.elnuevodia.com/noticias/locales/nota/cambialalog...

Solar energy could be a good temporal solution for this kind of disasters:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-puertorico-solar/how-...

The military probably have a lot of experience deploying solar energy infrastructure in places with complex accessibility.

Afghanistan was a testbed for this technology because remote bases were often extremely expensive to maintain if running off of generator power. The cost of fuel was astronomical since it had to be ferried in by helicopter.

Your favorite vendor-of-the-future is on the case [1].

[1] https://www.ecowatch.com/tesla-batteries-puerto-rico-2490950...

I have a friend who sells containerized solar+wind+battery power systems, which is pretty handy in places where there's no grid. But still, given that PR does have a grid, repairing it plus sending in diesel for hospitals/cell cites is probably more cost-effective than sending in containerized solar now.

> Apparently there are 10,000 containers in port but no way to distribute the goods. No drivers, no gas for trucks, and no passable roads to drive on.

The US military relies on the ability to rapidly solve these kind of problems anywhere in the world (even across “big water” from the Continental US) including on-demand road clearing/building with either minimal pre-existing infrastructure or heaving damage to pre-existing infrastructure rendering it unusable.

US law provides broad authority for the use of military resources for disaster relief. It's a failure of the executive branch senior leadership if the need for such resources is not identified and acted on in a timely fashion.

It seems like there should be a carrier parked off the island providing relief. Those things are freaking cities, complete with state-of-the-art trauma centers and heavy logistics support. It's what the US does when there are massive tsunamis or similar in other parts of the world.

And don't tell me that the army's engineering corps can't spare a bunch of trucks, half-tracks, bulldozers, mobile bridges, etc. That and preparing for/preventing natural disasters is practically what the army's engineering corps exists for, domestically. The US army holds its place in the world because of its astonishing ability to provide extensive logistical support anywhere, anywhen. But we apparently can't manage basic distribution in our own home when the roads get swamped?

There is a carrier off the coast of PR: USS Kearsarge. The USS Oak Hill (not a carrier though) is also in PR. Both arrived shortly after Maria hit.

The USS Wasp was recently moved from Dominica to PR.

Note, this is still less help than FL received for Irma. FL got Kearsarge + Oak Hill + New York + Iwo Jima. (The last two ships have about 2000 people.. they were clearing roads, restoring electricity, and distributing supplies in FL.. they went home from FL the same day maria was upgraded to a cat 4 and was just off PRs coast.)

And note, USS Wasp was in PR for Irma, then moved to Dominica for Maria, now has moved back a couple of days ago. (USS Wasp has water purification systems.. they're literally distributing water)

Huh, cool. It's always nice to see them being used for relief efforts like this.

Good update from WaPo on ship deployments [1] including deploying USMS Comfort (which apparently PR officials initially declined).

[1] - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/10/04...

> there's no one there to build them because there's no food or water.

Surely there are still 3.4 million Puerto Ricans on the island?

Are they all starving and without water?

Might you possibly be exaggerating?

I'm sorry, that was meant to read "no local food or water" which is what the OP says.

I can't imagine 3.4 million people stick around with no electricity for 4-6 months, and no local economy. I did not at all mean to claim 3.4 million people have left already.

I am guessing if the electrical grid is truly destroyed and will take 4-6 months to rebuild as reported, how could that not lead to a mass exodus?

A lot of people will leave (and a lot of people have been leaving because the economy's been in freefall and they've been imposing more and more extreme austerity measures to keep paying bonds), but the island will not by any stretch of the imagination be deserted.

Hyperbole, noun: Obvious and intentional exaggeration; an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

Is it? I don't have a good handle on the logistical issues involved. Does the media? Commenters on this site?

Which resources should the government haved used and didn't?

Something came to mind the other day, when someone was on Hacker News in Puerto Rico mentioning how they were leaving (for Atlanta I think)?

What if we just crowdfunded people getting out of PR and helping them get setup in the US? If the US government won't address the humanitarian crisis, yet its still a humanitarian crisis, could we still not address it collectively as private individuals?

When a government turns its back on its citizens, its citizens are left to help their fellow citizens.

EDIT: Based on the thread response, I suppose we'll just watch everyone suffer in Puerto Rico. Mission Accomplished /s

Scaling problem. If you wanted to get ten thousand people out and settled somewhere else, you'd be talking about close to ten thousand dollars apiece between transit and housing and job search and overhead--we're not crowdfunding a hundred million dollars.

BTW, Puerto Rico has about 3.5 million residents.

Crowdfunding as a patch is both mathematically unlikely in the short term and socially toxic in the long term--this is why we have governments, they can marshal the proper number of zeroes at the end of the number, it's their job. At least, when led by people who believe it is their mission to actually do their jobs.

Hopefully your last point gets remembered at upcoming elections.

Isn't it a fallacy to do nothing because you can't do everything for everyone?

Is crowdfunding some plane tickets really the most effective thing you can do? Is entirely abandoning Puerto Rico actually what Puerto Ricans want? Is crowdfunding abandonment the response you would want if your state faced a natural disaster?

> Is crowdfunding some plane tickets really the most effective thing you can do?

Yes. As a US citizen, it is far cheaper for me to help a Puerto Rican fly to the mainland and get a job, versus the enourmous money pit that is Puerto Rico's finances (which calls for, in their constitution, taxes be funneled to bondholders before infrastructure).

> Is entirely abandoning Puerto Rico actually what Puerto Ricans want?

This does not matter to me. I'm willing to help those that want to leave and can find opportunity elsewhere. The current US administration as shown they won't help. The Puerto Rican government has no ability to help themselves. Shall we just let people slowly suffer until death?

> Is crowdfunding abandonment the response you would want if your state faced a natural disaster?

When a ship is sinking, you don't demand people stop throwing life rafts and get back on the boat to repair the boat. If I were a natural disaster victim, I would happily accept any form of help provided if I was left with nothing.

I lived in PR for a few years. Almost everyone I met (thousands of people) had family in the mainland (and had been up there to visit them at least once). I was told that there were more Puerto Ricans on the mainland than in PR. I'm just imaging what would happen if everyone (or the majority) left PR to go live with their families in NY or Florida or wherever... for sure the debt would never get paid back since the tax base would be gone, the villages would quickly disappear as the fast growing plant life took things back over, the resorts would have to close unless they brought in a lot of Dominicans to fill the positions... it's crazy to think about, but I could totally see it happening.

instead, investors with money will buy up good locations and build bigger resorts and turn PR into something more like Aruba or the resort towns in Mexico. except closer. zero middle class and lots of cheap unskilled labor.

at least thats one possible outcome.

Don't forget those high-risk, high-return bonds Congress won't let them default on and all the effects of that. Things were already arguably headed that way.

Puerto Rico's population has been falling for the last 10 years or so, which is a strong factor in why they had so much trouble with debt. This is going to make it much worse. See https://www.cfr.org/blog/puerto-rico-maria for a lot more detail.

Because Is expected that those people will not work?. If they work they can contribute. People living in a different country pay taxes also. Dead people can't.

With most infrastructures distroyed, tourism industry in Puerto Rico will not employ much people for some time probably, so many Puerto Ricans will be unable to pay a lot of taxes in any case, not if they remain in the island.

Well, PR is not a different country. Puerto Ricans are Americans. When they live in PR they pay "state" taxes to PR. But if they are living in NY then they will pay NY state taxes, not PR "state" taxes.

People moving from Puerto Rico to the US aren't living in a different country. They’ll continue to pay taxes to the same country (in fact, more taxes to the country), but they won't pay local taxes in Puerto Rico, for the same reason a US citizen who used to live in San Francisco but now lives in Salt Lake City doesn't pay taxes in San Francisco or California.

Puerto Rico is a US colony (or, more politely, territory), not a foreign country.

Puerto Rico is not one of these extremely underdeveloped economies where the only work is in tourism. In fact the pharmaceutical industry is facing a bunch of shortages since PR is a major manufacturing hub for them.

Upvoted because I still find the second paragraph introducing crowfunding a valuable adition to the debate. I don't know how, and agree with the problems with asking people to do the job of the government, thus paying two times for the same thing, but maybe could still be useful at a minor scale or if headed towards a different goal

Im the one leaving to Atlanta [0]. Crowdfunding might work, but how would you scale it? In my case, I dont need money from a crowsource campaign. I just need a job once I arrive by the 15th. Others who are leaving do so, too. Keep an eye out for those. :)

I think everyone in the US should take notice of how things are being handled because this could be you in the future.

[0]Link to my resume in case you are hiring and interested:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9bEeheRVaXZZm1YR3EyVkhVWUk...

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