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Comment by sheepmullet | Hacker News Reader

> For now, my sentiment is that Singapore's society, government and people, on balance, cares about each other.

Singaporeans happily balance rights with responsibilities. It's a more collective outlook.

> In the United States, that basic, human empathy is in question.

I find it is the opposite. There is far too much "empathy" in the US.

This means that it's impossible to take the middle ground that the average joe can actually support. Each path becomes all or nothing.

For example it's politically impossible in the US to have free healthcare only for non-smoking healthy weight individuals.

But I don't want to pay for an obese persons knee surgery.

And I know people don't want to pay for the brain damage I might get from doing boxing.

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>But I don't want to pay for an obese persons knee surgery.

Yeah, this is lack of empathy (and understanding of the reasons behind obesity).

As a fat guy I can say for certain the reason is eating too much.

Why do you eat too much? Obesity is almost always a mental health problem exacerbated by a sugar problem.

I cooked as a job for a while before I moved to software dev and I just enjoy food more than being thin. The effort isn't worth it to me.

Then why have we seen such a rapid onset of obesity and why does obesity spread like a disease?

Why is it any more of a mental health problem than smoking?

Foods have more calories per serving than previously and people are less active than they used to be.

Way less fat people in Singapore.. So that helps, I guess.

Because every auntie is happy to tell you you are getting fat.

You have the responsibility in Singapore to conform to societies expectations.

It's a very different mentality than we have in the US.

Maybe it's not just a lack of empathy. Maybe it's selfishness thing with some rationalization on top.

Are Singaporeans less selfish?

Are Swedish people?

Etc etc.

I don't think selfishness or lack of empathy are responsible for the state of US healthcare.

I've personally found Americans are very welcoming. Especially in the south.

Speaking as a Southerner, our friendliness is quite temporary, superficial, and cliquish.

Many Southerners are friendly toward 1) visitors, and 2) people in their immediate social circle. When the scope broadens to people of different races, nationalities, or political/sexual orientations, the friendliness quickly fades.

Growing up in a small Mississippi city in the 1980s & 90s, I saw a small but steady influx of transplants from other parts of the country who came to work our booming aluminum siding factory. They were all received warmly at first, and seemed bowled over by the attention. But as soon as they demonstrated their alien-ness by attending the wrong church (or being nonreligious), or heaven forbid, commenting on racial or political issues, the welcome mat was pulled back. They'd last a year or two at most, and then transfer somewhere else. And people would gossip about the funny Yankees after they left. "Andy's wife was a real loony-tunes," they'd say. "Told her Sunday school group she didn't believe abortion was wrong. And you know what they said about her husband. [whispering] That he was a pervert!"

Sad, really.

I upvoted you because I think you are asking a good question. If Americans aren't more selfish than others with better functioning health care, it would support the view that our health system is what is what is suppressing our better natures. I agree to some extent but I when I see "I don't want my money going to $theOther" it's hard not to think that selfishness is part of the problem as well.

> "I don't want my money going to $theOther" it's hard not to think that selfishness is part of the problem as well.

I think the selfishness is just expressed differently.

Where do you think the massive taxes on cigarettes and alcohol in most first world countries comes from? The calls for taxes on fatty foods? Requirements for extra insurance to do certain extreme sports?

It's the way they say we don't want to pay for your life choices.

> There is far too much "empathy" in the US.

> But I don't want to pay for an obese persons knee surgery.

This is Poe's Law writ large.

Why is it an extreme view that someone doesn't want to use healthcare for self inflicted diseases?

It’s an extreme lack of empathy and also not a well thought through position (it’s one step away from “I only want to pay for healthcare for healthy people”)

Why is it one step away from "I only want to pay for healthcare for healthy people"?

The "extreme view" I'm referring to with Poe's Law is the phrase "far too much empathy". "far too much" is synonymous with "extreme".

I was saying that "far too much empathy" is not something that goes well with "screw you, you brought it on yourself".

Too much empathy from one group of people causes other people to drop all empathy.

How can you find a common middle ground with people who are overflowing with empathy?

Can you please provide some real-world examples of what you mean, because I can't figure the kind of things you're talking about when you talk about excessive empathy being a problem for others.

People with too much empathy can be easily swayed by a couple of emotionally charged stories without carefully considering the long term consequences or the data.

Going off topic but gun control is a great example. There is a small group of Americans who want to take away the right to private ownership of firearms. It's a small group and not a real concern.

The problem is there is a decent chunk of Americans who are very empathy driven and you show them the picture of a little girl who was shot dead and reason goes out the window.

So what does the other side do? Push their own emotionally charged propaganda to combat it. And refuse to compromise even when they agree.

Because it is hard core dualism, which is generally considered non-scientific.

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