Comment by linsomniac | Hacker News Reader

Comment by linsomniac | Hacker News Reader

Generally I am for a smaller government rather than larger. But in this case, the private sector has demonstrated that without regulation specifying otherwise, they will do nothing to protect our identities.

The Social Security Administration's official policy on SSNs is that consumers don't have to give their SSN to businesses with the exception of tax-related things like employment and banks. But, they also say that businesses can choose to not do business with you if you are unwilling to give out your SSN.

And businesses have done nothing to help people secure their identities. In fact, they've done the opposite.

Starting around 20 years ago, I refused to give my SSN out except where it was specifically required by the govt. The insurance companies seemed to be the ones who had the hardest time of it, it required hours of effort with my insurance company to let me not have my SSN as my identifier. They ended up putting all zeroes in. But then every time I used my insurance I had to work with them ("What is your SSN?" "The insurance company doesn't use my SSN, they use all 0s." Blank stare).

Around 10 years ago it got to the point where there was even more push back and the effort was more than it was worth.

It really wasn't helping, being "the one guy who wouldn't give out his SSN". Pretty much every time I explained it to a doctors office they would say "I've never heard of that before, but it makes sense." That sort of pushback only really works if, you know, at least a few people do it. :-)

Look at their first quote, the reason for all this is “What is a better way to identify consumers in our country in a very secure way?" We are labeled as consumers, not citizens. Culture issue and perception issue everywhere.

> That sort of pushback only really works if, you know, at least a few people do it. :-)

In the 80s and early 90s, I also would refuse to give my SSN for non-taxid purposes.

I also was worn down by the system. Employers wouldn’t understand. (HR was horrid.). Buying a house was more difficult. Medical provider relationships were more complicated.

Cheers to you.

I've always left it blank on doctor forms, and no one's ever said a word to me...

Just say you were born abroad, are not a US citizen etc and therefore don't have an SSN, you just happen to speak good English because you went to American school.

But you're happy to give them your national ID number from your home country. Bonus points if you actually have another passport to waive around while claiming this.

This doesn't work all the time, but it's surprisingly effective in like 90% of cases.

That would be fraud. Don't do this.

Doesn't a party have to claim damages for there to be fraud? How could your doctor possibly do so in this case?

Being born outside the US doesn't preclude you from having a SSN. Quite the opposite - they're given to anyone who has ever worked in the US, even on a temporary work visa.

https://www.ssa.gov/ssnvisa/

Of course, because only Americans or American educated people can "speak good English".

I asked my dentist why and his front-office team said it's because it's easiest to sync with insurance this way. Since I had my insurance card on me, I just used that number and they were quite happy. It just seemed like a convenience thing.

What would you have a private company do, exactly? Like many after this recent Equifax disaster, I've thought about taking some action - but I'm pretty unclear on what that would mean exactly. What private solution could address this? What product would help?

Private companies could generate their own identifier and then use that instead of an SSN. Here in MA, driver's licenses have a code generated by the RMV.

I think most cases are companies that use software that just assumes the SSN will be readily available.

The problem comes when company A wishes to ensure that its interactions with company B involve individual X, and not some other individual Y or Z.

It's well and good for a given organisation to have its own internal identifier. And virtually all do -- that's what your account number, or customer ID, or payment number, etc., are. That works fine for internal operations.[1]

But it doesn't address the inter-organisational problem.

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Notes:

1. Well, sometimes. Actually the hijinks that can happen within an organisation with identifiers are ... numerous.

Why does the doctor's office ask for SSN?

It's a convenient identity number. It roughly maps to a person, and usually health/dental insurance will be able to look up their customers by it. Ex: when I go to a new dentist, I tell them who I have insurance with, and my SSN, and they're able to confirm I have coverage. It's also a number most people have memorized, because it doesn't change, and is fairly often used.

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