Photos: what Puerto Rico’s unfolding humanitarian disaster looks like | Hacker News Reader

Photos: what Puerto Rico’s unfolding humanitarian disaster looks like

vox.com

64 pointscurtis65 comments

'The Mayor of San Juan, who was very complimentary only a few days ago, has now been told by the Democrats that you must be nasty to Trump.'

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/91408723486904729...

The Americans really lack a leader with any empathy.

The irony is that he accused her of poor leadership right before he headed to his golf club for the weekend.

Which falls predictably into a long-running pattern of projection.

Absolutely nothing in American politics is above politicization these days. Who is doing the politicizing depends on who you believe.

> Who is doing the politicizing depends on who you believe.

I'm not sure if the parent comment is sarcastic or bitter, but I think it's important to remember that it's not reality. The idea is false that humans are locked into ideologies and care nothing for truth, reality, and the welfare of their fellow citizens; it's despair. It's capitulation to the few ideologues, who do see the world that way and want to impose it on the rest of us.

It's not Republicans vs Democrats, or conservatives vs liberals, it's ideologues vs good-willed, sensible people, thinking and acting in good faith.

For the president to be saying what he has said this morning is shameful and a disgrace to all Americans. I hope at least some of those who voted for him are hanging their heads today.

To me, this is the true damage the president is doing: hanging Americans out to dry. We’re supposed to be there for our own, not spitting in their face when they’re down and out.

This only divides us more.

If you don't think this disaster is being used to score political points (on both sides) you're being naive.

That's what American politics is today. It's not "how can we make things better" it's "how can I spin this to help me in the next election?"

Trump is just a reflection of American society. People hate him for what he is, but he got to where he is today because of what he is, which tells you that he's been enabled by society for the last 5 decades.

He won because he understood how greedy and lazy and weak his opponents were and he didn't have the tact to avoid attacking them, sometimes incredibly personally. But look at how ugly people get in response to him, all while thinking they are the "good guys".

It should disturb the hell out of people. It's hard to understand how we're not going to go over some kind of edge without serious change. We are a society of delusional narcissists which reward delusional narcissists.

Politicians gonna politic, and the Pope is still Catholic.

Only one of the "sides", at least in theory, is in control of all the branches of government, and thus should probably be doing something with that power... like, perhaps governing?

Responding adequately to a predictable natural disaster counts as governing, right?

Do you have a good sense as to how disaster relief is going? I sure as hell don't. I also have no idea just how hard it is to do.

Maybe, relative to other disaster relief it's going really well? Maybe it's terrible. I sure as hell can't tell from what the media is saying (probably because they don't know either).

Truth, as usual, is whichever flavor you pick off the menu.

Her speech is really kinda chilling too: https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/913871652768878592

Cities should not have to beg for aid. The government should have prepared and started relief efforts in full force as soon as the storm cleared. Instead he's politicizing the disaster and playing with people's lives just to shake up another outrage firestorm that distracts from the real issue.

Is it true that there has been a less-than-full relief effort? I'm looking for facts not speeches or tweets.

Perhaps my frustration should be directed at leadership instead. I actually wrote that without any data on what the government has done vs what they could have done, but the white house at least has been notably slower to react now than with past storms:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/lost-weekend-how-tru...

The government started relief efforts immediately and in full force, despite two other hurricanes stretching FEMA to the limit. Believe it or not the power of the federal government is not infinite.

Can you provide some basis for that? There is a lot of reporting that says otherwise. For example:

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/9/30/16389640/pu...

Could you provide some basis otherwise? Some angry tweets aren't evidence that we weren't sending them food/supplies/assistance.

Evidence for us providing maximum support (yes it's just Twitter, but so was that Vox article): https://twitter.com/abbydphillip/status/914124370422976513

You know what? I started looking for more facts on this, and to be honest I don't think there are any. All of the news, especially since Trump tweeted this morning, is extremely politicized. For any source that provided evidence one way or another I could not untangle any objective facts from whatever agendas I felt they were trying to push. Most of what I found was just fluff that blew up some quip or minuscule fact that I honestly only thought was worthwhile because it was presented in a way to exploit my confirmation bias.

But this is the tactic this administration has been using to scatter people's attention and make it impossible to find reliable information about what is actually going on. Cause some outrage that exacerbates biases in the media, claim that news is unreliable because of bias, and then present the facts as you would like it.

Everyone realized the storm was worse than anyone predicted, mayor criticizes government and pleads for more help, DT creates some outrage, and now they can deflect any criticism by saying that their critics are out for their throats.

I have two undeniable facts though:

* Shit's bad.

* The WH's slow response and DT's comments are not helping.

She used the TV cameras to grandstand Trump in preparation for her run for governor. Who you think is lacking empathy really depends on which side you're already on. The US is doing its best to help a place that's had 85 years to prepare for a hurricane and she has the audacity to blame the US for not helping enough, while millions of pounds of food sit rotting on docks and FEMA works 24/7! Shame on her.

EDIT: Honest question, now that the argument seems to be over whether the USA is putting forth its maximal effort (which I believe it is). Puerto Rico doesn't pay federal income tax, which largely funds the response that States receive. Puerto Rico is not even a territory, it is a commonwealth, and supposed to be much more independent and self-reliant than States. They even have their own President. Are they entitled to equal aid that States receive? If not, it appears what we are doing for Puerto Rico is more charity as opposed to obligation. So that makes the mayor's statements more inflammatory and inappropriate than they would otherwise be.

She plead for help. And there's definitely more the feds / military could do. Puerto Rico is part of the US.

The Navy could evacuate the entire island with one aircraft carrier and a few trips to Miami. Our leaders just do not have the will to do so.

What? There's three million+ people living there. And where are they supposed to live? And how should they be picked up, with a seriously decimated transport network?

She plead for help in the most polarizing way possible. The USA is going above and beyond to assist Puerto Rico right now, and we will continue. The mayor's biting of the charitable hand that is feeding them is appalling.

Please craft a 30s soundbite that you'd consider appropriate, given the situation on the ground.

"We're not a State, or even a Territory, we're an independent Commonwealth and supposed to be independent of federal disaster assistance. But myself, and other political leaders in Puerto Rico, abdicated our duties and did not prepare. You are providing us immense and essential aid, but we need more, as my leadership has been corrupt and incompetent. Thank you for your extraordinary efforts so far, and thank you in advance for saving the people I was elected to protect."

IOW: Groveling.

Sure that's a bit tongue in cheek, but she could take a page from the other leaders in Puerto Rico. The only reason she's getting airtime is to push a narrative that generates clicks and views.

It was brilliant for her to tell Trump to step it up on national TV - that was the only way he would focus his complete attention on Puerto Rico instead of spending all his time on Twitter stroking his broken ego over his fallout with the NFL.

If you think that kneeling during the anthem while letting Trump wrap himself in the American flag is good optics, I question your assessment of her brilliancy. We've already been as focused as we can be. Short of Trump going over there and handing out water bottles there's not much more he can do. And thanks to her, the crisis is politicized.

> The US is doing its best ...

Again, what is this based on? Plenty of reporting indicates otherwise.

> a place that's had 85 years to prepare for a hurricane

That is disingenuous.

It’s embarassing that this is so underreported in the US. This is a disaster at an epic scale and it’s just not received anywhere close to the coverage it deserves. I understand that America may not want to hear about thousands of people dying in Asia when Houston is submerged. That’s not moral but it’s not surprising considering human nature. But this is a bunch of Americans on American land.

It doesn’t help that the President has made it all about how he is the real victim while golfing in NJ.

It's on the front page of the Washington Post today.

>in Asia

I think you're misunderstanding.

This is Puerto Rico, a US territory. The people in those images are United States citizens.

Read two sentences later.

I think the original commenter was saying he could understand why american media focused on the flooding in houston rather than the flooding in southeast asia, but there’s no excuse for not covering puerto rico.

It really depends on what network you view. I encourage you to look at news sites across the political spectrum and see how they're covering the story. If you want the TL;DR of these see here: http://www.newseum.org/todaysfrontpages/?tfp_display=gallery....

A good amount of people watch cable news, and to their credit, both CNN and MSNBC have been covering this since it happened, although perhaps neither with the detail nor at the exclusion of any other news that Harvey got while the Houston flooding was at its worst.

Then again, the Harvey coverage faded rapidly in the days after the storm left Texas; the Puerto Rico recovery is still unfolding and gets a fair bit of television and press.

Perhaps there is a perception that this is underreported but I don't think so. The kind, nature, amount, and pervasiveness of the news coverage is simply a reflection that life for everybody else still goes on (or rather, has to go on), and even for the people of Puerto Rico that's bizarrely true in the worst possible ways [1].

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15374084

I think the quality and quantity of reporting coming out of Puerto Rico has suffered from both its political status and the fact that it is an island at a considerable distance from the mainland U.S.

However, I think the situation has been compounded by both the degree of damage caused by the hurricane and by the kind of damage. Something like 90% of the cell towers are offline and the landlines have been heavily damaged as well. So you have this problem where you can't get reporters in and you also can't get firsthand reports from locals out, either.

It seems like a clear case of no news is bad news, but how is the news media supposed to report "no news"?

One of the biggest issues is the holdup of supplies at the port where there was damage to the facilities. Getting logistics in place when there is a limited supply of gas/electricity/communication makes everything more difficult, along with the government bureaucracy.

For anyone who is interested in helping increase the ability of first responders and folks on the ground to better respond to events like this, consider building tech and startups that aid in volunteer management and distribution, communication systems when power and cell towers are down, logistics networks to get supplies to places in need. Much of this stuff is not innovative tech, someone just has to care to retrofit solutions that exist already to the needs of these scenarios. Heck, the Red Cross volunteer signup page is just a wufoo form. So much can be automated and modernized.

Made a simple site with some resources on where to donate money/goods: prmaria.com

Disclaimer: Living in San Juan and hearing reports from the ground

Has anybody seen a good technical overview about the current situation in Puerto Rico? I'm not sure what that would look like exactly, but I imagine it would involve some maps and tables and some actual data. I realize that data is hard to come by in the early stages of a situation like this, but on top of that the news media really only seems to report anecdotal stuff with a random smattering of actual facts thrown in without any context. Is there some media outlet that's doing a better than average job out there that I don't know about?

> the news media really only seems to report anecdotal stuff with a random smattering of actual facts thrown in without any context

There just isn't much money in journalism to do in depth work, which results in poor quality articles, which reduces people's willingness to pay for it.

It's a downward cycle of despair.

I subscribed to the print version of Newsweek for something like 20 years, and at least in the 80s and 90s it was a pretty decent source of information even if it was somewhat format limited (think of it as the 168 hour news cycle rather than the 24 hours news cycle).

But I can't justify that kind of subscription anymore, because I don't read a single source when reading online, I read from a huge variety of sources.

I've reached the point where I would be willing to pay for good online stuff, but I am not going to do it by paying for a bunch of subscriptions on a whole bunch of different sites. But there really isn't any other alternative it seems like. It seems to me like there ought to be some sort of business opportunity here.

What can the rest of America do here? Can you get down there to volunteer? Is the Red Cross the best place to donate?

And what if this happened in Guam? Hawaii? Alaska? Chicago? What do we think the response from the US govt would be in any of these cases?

> Is the Red Cross the best place to donate?

No. I can't answer the rest of your questions, but the American Red Cross has horribly mismanaged disaster responses in recent years.

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-red-cross-secret-disa...

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/16/482020436/senators-report-find...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/0...

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/can-help-hurricane-victi...

PBS: How you can help hurricane victims in Puerto Rico

Thank you!

Of course this will be politicized but there is not much we can do except let time run its course. Supplies have been sent to PR, many weeks ago. But distribution is not easy. There is not any gasoline to run vehicles. And the little bit of diesel that is around is used to run chillers to keep perishable supplies. But that fuel is about to run out too. Which means they'll have another problem, they'll have tons of stuff that will need to be disposed of and no where to put it. Its a mess, but this is what happens.

You can't air drop supplies on mountain terrain. It won't land where you want it, and people will likely die trying to get to it. Many state the help should have been sent before the hurricane...yea that will work good as your supplies and volunteers are washed out into the ocean. About the best you can do right now is pack a sail boat full of hotdogs and start sailing.

> Of course this will be politicized but there is not much we can do except let time run its course.

Huh? The three star general now commanding the military effort says he doesn't have the necessary resources (neither hardware, nor staff). There's just forty or so helicopters ferrying stuff around.

Seriously? That's the best the US is supposed to be able to do?

When I see this kind of damages, and what happened to St-Martin and St-Barthelemy, I thank God that my island has not been under the eye of Maria.

I have seen storms before, but that was a different beast!

I am hopeful that more people now understand the importance of housing and building standards.

I wonder if there is some paranoid prepper somewhere on San Juan who is now at his cabin in the mountains eating his storeable food, etc. Their doomsday scenario finally arrived and all. Probably not. Even if there was, their carefully prepared stuff probably got trashed during the storm.

I'm sure the paranoid prepped is there. But the nature of being a paranoid prepped is that he or she is holed up and not coming out to talk/share.

Now probably wouldn't be a good time to go wandering across other people's land

If they are, they're not going to go around bragging about it.

Since Maria and Irma, I have been thinking about how I can make my house self-suficient. Water storage is becoming cheap, and I hope solar will also become affordable when Tesla solar roof will be sold outside the US.

Water storage is important, especially in case of a radioactive event, but for most cases you probably want a water filter, such as a Life Straw. You can probably filter more water than you can store (unless you have a very large water tank).

You don't have to be a "paranoid prepper" to be ready for a Cat 4 hurricane while living in an area most prone to them.

There are a lot of charities that have been working to help areas affected by these recent storms and earthquakes. Is there an easy way to donate and have it be spread across several trusted charities at once? What is the best way to help here?

I'm no expert, but I suspect that because Puerto Rico has ties to the US, it probably receives more funding than the other islands in the area.

I'm always taken aback by the people who decide to stay when they've been ordered to evacuate. That must require either a Herculean level of courage or an incorrect estimation of the real danger posed by certain classes of tropical storms.

Or they lack the ability to leave for economic or physical reasons or infrastructure doesn't allow for it. Think of the massive traffic jams leaving Houston: I can imagine weighing the risks of staying versus getting caught in the storm on a jammed highway.

Can you explain to me where you think people of limited means who live on an island are supposed to go?

this is one of the most out of touch responses I've ever seen anywhere. it's an island 1000 miles from the mainland populated by predominantly poor people. what do you except them to do? swim?

I didn't specifically reference Puerto Rico. Obviously if you are on an island surrounded by water you cannot leave. I was referencing people that have the means and capability to leave, but don't because of sheer stubbornness.

> I didn't specifically reference Puerto Rico.

You commented on a post that was specifically about Puerto Rico.

Or maybe they're stuck on an island that's difficult to evacuate?

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