How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

There was an effort to repeal it, but for some reason governor Cuomo decided to veto it. https://kniferights.org/legislative-update/new-york-gravity-...

“It just seemed like a trumped-up charge,” she says. “And it certainly doesn’t seem like it’s enforced equally across the board.”

This reads like a textbook example discussing the case for jury nullification.

To me, this is largely a result of lawyers fucking ruining everything they touch, and then not giving a shit about the lives they ruin by extension (for example, congress and k-street). It's the lawyers that are out of control here. They are the ones who got the bad law passed, they are the ones who keep allowing prosecutions to happen, they are the ones who keep the law from being challenged, etc. It's like lawyers want to be the gatekeepers to the world, but only if you pay them hefty fees. Hell, I even had someone try to tell me I shouldn't talk about GPL licensing because only lawyers understand licensing! I know lawyers are a needed entity, but they seem to have far too much power of the daily lives of people in this sense. You know what really grinds my gears though, is that these lawyers who are often at the heart of almost every injustice (even if by silent acquiescence) always pretend to be such awesome pillars of the community. I think we should start throwing lawyers in jail for such bullshit laws until you hit one powerful enough and watch the bullshit law suddenly disappear.

For anyone who wants to see video of what a real gravity knife is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZjXuiC8t1E

or a modern version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5IhZWyV0QI

The cop was nice and I was polite and respectful but it should also be noted if I was black I think the outcome would be completely different

Sure the law is a problem, but I don't see what motivations the justice system can have to apply the law like that, can somebody explain it to me?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/08/30/en...

So, with this situation: (1) Stay the heck out of NYC. (2) Try to stay the hack out of NYS. (3) Stay the heck away from cops. (4) Look the part of the powerful, upstanding, responsible, politically influential citizen. E.g., don't drive an old car. Etc.

Ah, a lot like what a lot of wild animals in the jungle have to do -- stay out of areas with potential attackers, stay away from potential attackers and generally out of sight and to any potential attacker look strong.

So, right, NYC is a jungle with vicious wild animals; cops, lawyers, and lawyer politicians are among the most dangerous wild animals in that jungle.

The actual societal problem -- the one that's been illegal forever -- is robbery. But it's hard to catch robbers. If they aren't caught in the first few minutes, there's a good chance they get away for good.

When the police stop somebody and find a knife on them, they might think "this person is probably using this to stick people up." The legislature can't pass a law that says "conviction for robbery requires now requires only probable cause", but they can try to achieve the same effect by making it illegal to carry a knife.

As I understand the situation, a juror can vote whatever based on whatever, for any reason or no reason, and never give their reason.

So, for a nonsense knife case as in the OP, really just a way for a lot of lawyer politicians to posture before the public and a lot of other lawyers to throw innocent citizens in jail just for the jollies, why not just vote innocent?

I was on a grand jury that considered a spring-assisted knife charged under this statute. Our legal guidance was to have the ADA read this dense paragraph out loud. A majority voted to indict.

The title is essentially wrong, in that it's not the law itself that has landed people in jail, it's the police wilfully mis-enforcing it.

Only criminals need knives.

/british-persona

That said, shouldn't the retailers be prosecuted for being in legal possession of the item prior to sale? They legally own all of the products in their inventory

0) http://www.germaniainternational.com/images2/unknown/Paratro...

Reform of the law passed in 2016, basically to make knives with a spring that holds them closed legal.

https://www.villagevoice.com/2016/06/15/gravity-knife-reform...

Here are some pertinent -- essential -- details, from mid-way through the article. First, I guess I should add that the article talks earlier about the problem of knives being perhaps deliberately mis-classified as gravity knives (without actually defining this).

Gravity-knife arrests may be popular for another reason. Most, like Neal’s, result from simple observation of a “pocket clip,” often readily visible. All officers need to do is keep their eyes peeled, and they can add another misdemeanor to their tally — or, if they’re lucky, a felony.

Matt Galluzzo, a former assistant district attorney in Manhattan, now a defense attorney in private practice, says that for many officers, a gravity-knife arrest is simply a hard collar to pass up. “You don’t have to fight the guy, you don’t have to chase him,” Galluzzo says. “It’s an easy way to make an arrest. And they’re under pressure to make arrests.” A poster on Officer.com, a verified online message board for law enforcement officers, put it bluntly in 2013 when he advised a rookie to be on the lookout for “GKs”: “make sure they have a prior conviction so you can bump it up to that felony!!!”

Most of the D.A.s in the state “have never prosecuted a gravity-knife case, or haven’t prosecuted one in 30 years,” according to a spokesperson for the District Attorneys Association of the State of New York. Even just beyond the city limits, gravity-knife prosecutions are exceedingly rare. While the population of the Bronx is roughly equal to that of Suffolk County on Long Island, the Bronx prosecuted more than 10 times as many likely cases in 2013 as its counterpart across the water.

Even worse, critics charge, is that officials have prosecuted knife users aggressively while doing little to address the source of those same knives, which are sold openly at reputable retailers all over the city. New York State assemblyman Dan Quart, a Democrat from Manhattan, says there’s an obvious contradiction at play: “You can walk in and purchase one of these knives over the counter,” he says, “and then walk out and get arrested.”...

The racial breakdown of stops is also striking. Of the thousands of arrests that resulted from stop-and-frisk encounters, 86 percent of the total involved black or Hispanic suspects. And a Voice analysis also shows that white suspects are significantly more likely to be let go, even when they’re caught carrying knives. Only 35 percent of white suspects found with knives — virtually any of which might meet the NYPD’s ecumenical definition — are arrested, while 56 percent of black and Hispanic suspects are ultimately booked.

Ah, and finally, a definition of what a gravity knife is:

The original gravity knife — the type legislators targeted when they banned them half a century ago — bears no resemblance to the kind that landed Richard Neal and thousands of others in jail over the last decade. Developed by the German military for use by paratroopers during World War II, the idea behind a gravity knife was simple: An unlucky parachutist who found himself in a tight spot — tangled in a tree, for example — would be able to access the knife even with injuries or limited mobility. Simply press a button and the blade would literally fall out of the handle and lock in place...

The legislature didn’t target gravity knives at the time — they were still rarely seen in the U.S. But after switchblade bans went into effect, the knife industry saw an opportunity. Even though they were nearly identical in design, gravity knives lacked a spring, a key characteristic of the newly illegal switchblades. So manufacturers stuck with warehouses full of worthless knives simply removed the springs and went on selling, calling the new products “gravity knives.”

I wonder if New York's approach to weapons laws has roots in their switch from slave state to free state (which was late for the region) like so many laws in other states. Texas took until the '90s to manage to annul their prohibitions on the concealed carry of handguns (they were no-issue up until 1995) which were clearly initially intended to be enforced selectively against the emancipated.

In my state, I can carry a concealed gun and switchblade, no license necessary. That’s the way it should be nationally.

Black and hispanic people are prosecuted while white ones were not? Owners of corporate persons were personally liable under criminal charges while chains only had to pay a fine?