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Comment by QAPereo | Hacker News Reader

Countries are not people, they don't respect or love each other, they oscillate between peace and war. The history of every major nation is a history of violence and conquest, not freely entered union.

So, why deny independence? Because only the optics have changed, not the reality?

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> Countries are not people, they don't respect or love each other, they oscillate between peace and war. The history of every major nation is a history of violence and conquest, not freely entered union.

IMO that has not been true for last 70 yrs. Point to me a war that has been People vs People.

The fact of the current world is People Are Sovereign. If some >=N people domiciled in continuous region wants self-determination, thats their human right.

I suspect that those who want to separate Catalonia from the rest of the country wouldn’t agree with the human right of the people in the Barcelona metropolitan are to choose by themselves their own future...

They do agree though. Barcelona, Aran, whatever. You name it.

Just start the political movement and it'll be respected. I think it's a fair ask.

It won't be respected by all, not even by all ERC politicians. Don't fall into the trap of thinking Catalonia is somehow free of hypocrites:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnMA7KdGxn0

Ok.

By the way, can I get your crystal ball? There's this lottery thing...

Your mocking argument is that only magicians can expect people to maintain their views?

My mocking argument is that you're making a wild guess.

Aran has its rights explicitly recognised by Catalan Parliament, including their self determination rights, right now: https://cat.elpais.com/cat/2015/01/23/catalunya/1422013790_5...

Rahola hasn't been a politician for decades. ERC is much better than it was with her and Angel Colom.

True, countries are not people. But you "optics, not reality has changed" argument is very abstract. What is this reality that means that they should not be allowed to vote?

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