The Video Game Software Wizardry of Id (2002) | Hacker News Reader

The Video Game Software Wizardry of Id (2002)

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113 pointsshawndumas32 comments

Man, I just never get tired of reading pretty much anything about Id. I think I speak for a lot of programmers, and not just game devs, when I say that the romanticization of Id's history has painted one of the most ideal programmer stories, and one that I often have fantasized living, or at least have imagined what it would have been like to be on that team in the glory days.

I never played Commander Keen, or Wolfenstein 3D, or even Doom, which were all before my time. But when all my friends were getting high speed internet and playing the newest FPS games online, I dreamed of the day I'd have a computer good enough and connection fast enough to join in on the fun. Then one of my older family friends gave me his old copy of Quake 3 Arena, and suddenly I was thrown into this unbelievably fun world of online death matches. Even on my weak family desktop, I could play the game with good FPS. This was my first real interest in computers.

Then when I started programming and learning the history of the field, I of course came across the Id team and connected the dots between my first online gaming experience, programming, and how Id created these games with it. It's been one of those magical "good old days" of programming culture that I look back on for inspiration and motivation and why I like this field so much.

>>I think I speak for a lot of programmers, and not just game devs, when I say that the romanticization of Id's history has painted one of the most ideal programmer stories, and one that I often have fantasized living, or at least have imagined what it would have been like to be on that team in the glory days.

I guess. I assume you've read Masters of Doom and other relatively factual accounts of their history? It's not exactly the most reasonable behavior, and you can get that kind of death march abuse on any sort of game development team today.

We owe Carmack a lot. Doesn't make working for him some sort of pleasurable experience. Most innovators are like this.

That seems even more romantic. At every stage all the participants seemed willing. It wasn't so much working for as working with.

I found myself both repulsed by and attracted to the environment described in Masters Of Doom. It's the attraction that fascinates me.

There was a time when i would obsessively check John Carmack's .plan for any new updates. It was pretty cool to see it all unfold.

> Four guys with that passion were artist Adrian Carmack; programmer John Carmack (no relation); game designer Tom Hall; and programmer John Romero.

I like to think that the real reason Tom Hall fell out with id before Doom's release is that his name wasn't Adrian Romero and it spoiled the symmetry.

Master of Doom[0] chronicles the rise of Id, how partnerships formed, how the games were designed and developed, how the founders took the company to become multimillion dollar behemoth, and the unfortunate split between them. Excellent read if you are into video games and startups.

[0] https://www.amazon.ca/Masters-Doom-Created-Transformed-Cultu...

A visit to Id in 1993: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpEBUV_g9vU

Contains footage of an early Doom build.

"You gotta have quick keys to say 'Your Mamma' or.." "We're gonna have macros in there. You're gonna be able to set em up in the setup program... ...so you just hit it real quick and it will say 'Screw you faggot!' or somethin"

Man things never change. That is hilarious and what a great environment to work in for them having to work late hours like they were.

Off-topic, I thought the title was referring to the Wizardy video game: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizardry:_Proving_Grounds_of_t...

When my family bought our first PC in 1981, Wizardry was the first computer game I played. My father taught himself assembly by writing a utility to edit bytes on a 5.25" floppy drive. I used his program to cheat and boost the scores of the characters in my party, and I still wasn't able to beat the game. Wizardry is not an easy game.

Back on topic, I was in college when Doom came out, and I was as blown away as everyone else was by the graphics. The performance and playability of Doom didn't seem like it should have been possible on my Intel 80386 with 4Mb of RAM. So "wizardry" is a fair term for what Carmack and Id accomplished.

I was fairly young when these games came out but could someone confirm with me that the first collage of game screenshots are mirrored backwards? They say [bottom to top, left] but it looks like they have it flipped. Like Wolfenstein 3D (left), Hovertank (right) and Quake (left), Doom (right).

Lots of mistakes in that caption. The games are:

  Top: Return to Castle Wolfenstein (2001)
  Second row, from left: Quake II (1997), Doom (1993)
  Third row: Wolfenstein 3D (1992), Hovertank 3D (1991)
  Bottom: Dangerous Dave In the Haunted Mansion (1991)

Very much this. It doesnt bode well for the credibility of an article posted on IEEE no less, when random 30 something person can spot 2 errors in 5 seconds after loading the page.

I spotted:

  - Bad image order instructions
  - Quake should be Quake II
  - Hovertank should be Hovertank 3D
  - Commander Keen should be Dangerous Dave In the Haunted Mansion

Looks right to me. Right to left, bottom to top is what I read their description as being. One thing wrong is that isn't Quake, but Quake 2 which was released in 1997

Also the bottom image isn't Commander Keen, it's Dangerous Dave.

They do mention that order, kind of. I guess the problem is that right to left, top to bottom is a fairly maniacal order to put things in without a good reason.

Oh that's my mistake. I thought by the description "left", it meant "yes, bottom to top but for each row, read left to right". Thanks!

The entire article has far too many errors. Most of the info is correct but they make several mistakes including lots of typos.

The original Commander Keen was the first PC game I ever played, and it will forever hold a very special place in my heart.

Me too! It taught me that life is strange, terrifying, inexplicable, and buggy. But that's okay; you can cheese the rules so long as you have your pogo stick.

I was considering trying to make a power-assisted one for commuting and cosplaying, but we don't have good enough full-body airbags yet.

I started with Jazz Jackrabbit, and my mind was blown when I followed a hunch about Unreal Tournament's soundtrack and discovered that the same team was behind both games!

If you like this maybe you also like this recently released book "GAME ENGINE BLACK BOOK: WOLFENSTEIN 3D" [0] [0] http://fabiensanglard.net/Game_Engine_Black_Book_Release_Dat...

Masters of Doom is a great read... or listen

Seconded. You feel like you know the old id team personally after reading it.

Agreed! Another vote for that book!

id games were some of the best of its time, containing a good mastery of technical and fun gameplay elements. I´ve made a nice Android app with all the older .plan files documenting John Carmack´s insights on the development of Doom and Quake: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vitoralmei....

It looks cool but I don't understand why this needs to be an app. I'd have guessed 'offline reading' as a bonus but it needs network permissions so...?

Actually It really doesnt need to be an app. I made it because I was learning Android programming and I was looking for a simple idea to implement.

The internet permission is required because of the ads unfortunately...

Keen 4, 5, 6 ran on CGA... and perhaps 1-3 as well. What changed in Carmack's understanding that he could do this, or is the article just wrong?

Yeah that's right, Keen 4, 5, 6 required CGA. I assume he just redrew the entire screen each time since the CGA doesn't have the panning registers. Looking at youtube videos of people playing the CGA version it certainly looks jerky and slow.

Hmm those videos look nothing like what I remember playing it felt like on my old 286 with CGA.

Maybe faded memories? I guess I'll have to set up a DOSbox and try it.

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