Why did science fiction stop moving forward?
lareviewofbooks.org
lareviewofbooks.org
But the article is about television. I really am not qualified to say much about television other than until very recently, it was very hard to have a hit TV show that only appealed to a niche audience. A series faithfully based on "The Martian" isn't likely to get a slot in prime time. The closest you'll get is so-called soft science fiction, which presents stories that happen to be set in unfamiliar locations (usually space), but where science has no influence on the story.
Maybe there's a chance now, with a very different distribution model, but even if hard science fiction fans can be perfectly targeted through Netflix or Amazon, special effects will keep production costs high.
I'd believe that more if there would have been any wider followup of similar works. But alas, there hasn't been (or at least I haven't heard of them), so I'm more likely to categorize The Martian as an outlier rather than a herald of new era.
It's a thing I've been wondering about - what makes special effects cost so much, compared to previous decades? I mean, everything is done with CG now, that's supposed to be orders of magnitude cheaper than what people did in the XX century.
Also you may miss how much of the shows are CGI if you aren't looking hard. Watch a few shows from the 70s and 80s, ones with high production values, then watch the average show today and you'll see that audiences demand much more realistic sets and scenery. Just about everything in the background of a sci-fi show is CGI.
In the originals, the battle for the Death Star holds up.
In the prequels, you can see Jedi wildly waving their lightsabers at nothing because the CGI team forgot to animate in certain places.
In the originals, Yoda was a puppet, and his skin and clothing reflected light realistically. So what if his mouth movements had all of the nuance and subtlety of a novelty nutcracker? Imagination bridged the gap between what we saw and what we experienced.
In the prequels, Yoda was CGI, so he didn't have physical depth in the way the other actors did, and didn't reflect light in the same way as the physical cast, and it gave him an eerie, Photoshopped look.
CGI can make special effects look more realistic, but they also have a way of preventing things from actually looking real.
Didn't realize how much this is true until I saw the video 'lfowles posted. That's a good point.
See the Wolf of Wall Street VFX highlights: https://vimeo.com/83523133
It now seems the high costs are more plausible, but then again - shouldn't the diminished need for sets offset that? Or is renting (or building) e.g. a prison yard so much cheaper than doing it in CG?
I think it's the opposite. In 1970s you would just create plastic models of spaceships and film them with normal camera. That's as cheap as creating plastic models can get. Of course end result wasn't that great, but it was enough to get by.
Now you can create pretty much anything you can imagine, and generate it as CG so it looks perfect on the screen, but you need expensive equipment and even more expensive people to operate it.
The point I'm trying to make is that 40 years ago we did simple effects with simple (and cheap) tools. Now we use advanced effects created with the expensive tools. Increased cost is justified by increased quality.
Are you sure? For example, from the ILM history at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Light_%26_Magic we see:
1975: Resurrected the use of VistaVision; first use of a motion control camera (Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope)
Following the link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_control_photography gives us:
> The first large-scale application of motion control was in Star Wars (1977), where a digitally controlled camera known as the Dykstraflex performed complex and repeatable motions around stationary spaceship models. This enabled a greater complexity in the spaceship-battle sequences, as separately filmed elements (spaceships, backgrounds, etc.) could be better coordinated with one another with greatly reduced error.
That doesn't sound like a normal camera.
The text immediately before that quote is:
> The 1968 film 2001: A Space Odyssey pioneered motion control in two respects. The film's model photography was conducted with large mechanical rigs that enabled precise and repeatable camera and model motion. The film's finale was created with mechanically controlled slit-scan photography, which required precise camera motion control during the exposure of single frames.
And in Close Encounters of the Third Kind, the mothership was made of wood, plastic and metal, and wasn't cheap.
Now, to be sure these are high budget movies, but your broad description makes it sound like it was true for all movies in the 1970s.
I think a better comparison would be to look at the model-based special effects in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine with the CGI effects in Babylon 5; both produced at about the same time. Quoting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine :
> DS9 was the first TV show in the Star Trek franchise to use computer-generated imagery (CGI) for exterior space shots. Although a few other television series, like Babylon 5, were using CGI exclusively to avoid the high expense of model photography, the Star Trek franchise had continued to use primarily physical models for exterior space shots because producers felt models provided more realism.
On the other hand, B5 had an absolutely amazing storyline. I wish someone would remaster it, replacing the exterior CG shots with new renders, and release it in full HD. It would beat the crap out of most of the things that are on TV today.
The quality wasn't quite as good, but within a few years it was both cheaper and better than plastic models.
mamon's argument is that with plastic models the "end result wasn't that great, but it was enough to get by". The same argument applies to Bab5.
That's why I disagree with mamon's argument.
Here's a good video, from 2009: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clnozSXyF4k
The vast majority of written science fiction doesn't need a lot of special effects.
There are almost uncountably many stories that could be transferred to television or film at no more cost than any other drama. Take Clifford Simak's Way Station for instance, most of Ray Bradbury's stories, J. G. Ballard, and dozens or hundreds more. Even stories with a grand idea and scope like Clarke and Baxter's Light of Other Days hardly need much in the way of complex sets or difficult special effects.
Why is it that science fiction in video form always has to be space opera, alien invasions and so on?
If we are going to go for special effects let's not waste them on more space cowboys. Let's have Charlie Stross's Accelerando and Saturn's Children or Ken McLeod's Sky Road, etc.
IMHO the best science fiction only needs good actors, the props could be '70s Dr Who quality and we would still love the series.
I think we've got sufficient effects technology to do a good dragon nowadays. Examples would be the dragons in Avatar and the dragons in How to Train Your Dragon (especially Toothless from the second movie).
I'm fairly literate in Liberal Arts English, but I don't follow what this means, especially as the context around it seems to complain about portrayals of race. What does it mean to "believe in 'culture' with a Victorian faith in white mythologies"? What does that modifier mean about one's belief in culture (whatever that even means, all on its own—do the scare quotes mean we're not supposed to think culture's a thing anymore, or is this a hardcore we-can-never-judge-a-culture-as-inferior thing the writer's assuming we all buy?). How does that relate to the rest of the paragraph?
Edit: Ah, the usual SJW refrain. Silence any criticism via flags, -1's and other tools available, instead of discussing why the quote is right/not and what it means.
Are there wrongs? Absolutely. But we can tackle those when we have clear evidence and direct corrective action. Striking out at anyone with a will to discuss and have legitimate concerns is not a way to bridge the communication gap.
Off topic. Well known argument. Tone seems angry.
Just a guess
You could also skip over the step of posting in comment threads.
1. Donglegate. Told a dongle joke, got fired.
2. Meritocracy Rug, Github.
3. "CodeOfConduct.md"
4. GamerGate
5. Throwing fits about pronouns: https://www.dailydot.com/news/github-gendered-pronoun-debate...
6. NodeJS leadership splitting at the seams https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/72dff4/nodejs_...
7. Demonization if you are a "White male in tech" - regardless if you are for equality or not
8. Google Memo/"Anti-diversity Screed"
So you're right. I could stay quiet about this. But these problems aren't going to go away with silence. And they aren't going to go away by shaming people into submission or silence under threat of job loss. These things are affecting the whole industry, and it's about high time to confront these issues head-on, without fear of losing your house, your food, and your livelihood. (Why do you think I run under a pseudonym?)
British colonialism specifically argued for Anglo-Saxon superiority, and the Kipling's "The White Man's Burden: The United States and the Philippine Islands" used a similar logic to argue that the US should take over the Philippines.
I guess I'm also a little confused that the review complains in such strong language[1] about what looks to be the most interesting thing in the show, assuming the writers have lead with this material for the reason that they intend to return to it though the rest of the season and need, you know, somewhere to go with it, so they can't just start at the end. If it finds a way to retain aliens-as-projections-of-human-psyco/social-demons of traditional Trek (and much popular sci-fi) but also address the definitely-smells-of-racism problems that naturally come with doing that for as long as Trek's done it... god, that'll be among the most interesting things Trek's ever done, and if the writers are competent then they sure seem to be setting up for something along those lines. It's easily the most promising thematic direction the first part of the series has set up, judging from this review, so wow, should they ever not clean it up, please. Dig in, get dirty, and find a way out that's a little more novel and nuanced than "hur hur see it was racism all along and now our protagonist learned a lesson!" and this'll be one for the ages.
[1] "We shall see. But to get there—and I have to say this as clearly as possible—this show needs to clean up its fucking act with respect to the deeply racist portrayal of its Klingons."
The review assumes that the reader has watched the show. I have not. I cannot comment further on this point, nor on the "deeply racist portrayal of its Klingons". I can point out that http://ew.com/tv/2017/09/07/star-trek-discovery-trump-politi... says:
> “The Klingons are going to help us really look at certain sides of ourselves and our country. Isolationism is a big theme. Racial purity is a big theme. The Klingons are not the enemy, but they do have a different view on things. It raises big questions: Should we let people in? Do we want to change? There’s also the question of just because you reach your hand out to someone, do they have to take it? Sometimes, they don’t want to take it. It’s been interesting to see how the times have become more of a mirror than we even thought they were going to be.”
and various people have asserted that the new Klingons are supposed to be like Trump supporters.
I guess I'm gonna have to watch for context for the quote. I think the paragraph's getting a little clearer to me now.
As for the rest: haha, wow. Now I've gotta watch, just so I can figure out whether the Klingons are racist (as in, the depiction is racist and the Federation's going all high-colonial Britain on 'em) or racist (as in, they're Trump supporter stand-ins), or somehow both at the same time. Should be... interesting, anyway.
Possibly both, actually, from the one-hour broadcast “pilot” (which seems more of a teaser than a pilot, but I'm not buying CBS All Access on the strength of that teaser, so I probably won't see the rest.)
That is, the focal Klingons are xenophobes looking for a war with the Federation to Make the Empire Great Again, but also there is strong indication of the other, as well. So, something for everyone on that department.
This is not a race thing, not is it a cultural thing. It is a human trait which is universal. It is not just related to physical attacks either, e.g. so-called 'social justice warriors' feel themselves morally superior over those who do not follow their specific strain of self-flagellation and -denial, sports teams, philosophers, investors, anywhere people choose themselves a niche they plant their flags and wave their banners.
Is the Federation in the new series supposed to be a conquering culture or nation, trying to take over the quadrant? If so, that's a huge change.
"It is a human trait which is universal"
Universal? What does that mean? Swedes and Norwegians each feel themselves to be better than the other nationality. They have flags and banners too. So, what is the consequence of this universal trait? Will Swedish tanks be going over the border soon?
Does that mean those who believe in internationalism ("the people of the world should unite across national, political, cultural, racial, or class boundaries to advance their common interests") are not human?
Trying to ruin someone's career? "Donald Trump Casually Threatens To ‘Destroy’ The Career Of State Lawmaker" who promoted asset forfeiture reform. - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-destroy-state-lawm... . I believe most people are for forfeiture reform.
Or more recently, "Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, 'Get that son of a b---- off the field right now. Out," Trump said amid applause. "He's fired. He's fired!" - https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-protests-donald-trump... . This form of silent protest against discrimination is increasingly common.
Always claiming to be a victim (though not from some -ism)?
"Trump claims to be victim of ‘witch hunt’ following appointment of special counsel in Russia case" - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/05...
"Trump on sex assault allegations: 'I am a victim'" - http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/14/politics/donald-trump-sexu... ("As you have seen, I am a victim of one of the great political smear campaigns in the history of our country")
"Trump paints himself as the real victim of Charlottesville in angry speech" - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/23/donald-trump...
"Trump: IRS audits me because I’m a “strong Christian”" - https://hotair.com/archives/2016/02/26/trump-irs-audits-me-b...
Is Trump an SJW?
This is ugly stuff. The discourse has descended to the level where the media is dominated by two different groups of extremist trolls taking potshots at each other using the language of outrage and grievance. The rest of us are caught in the middle and our society is becoming deranged as a result.
On the other side, they are willing to stop at nothing to destroy lives of people they see a threat as well. Ive seen it time and again. It turns into what amounts to a mob, exerting its will.
This is going to end very badly, for many. I see the underlying grievances as something neither side can amicably talk about, nor will either side give up.
How do you know there isn't only one group of extremist trolls?
If two groups disagree, they don't have to be balanced yin and yang.
If two groups disagree, the real answer doesn't have to lie in the middle.
In the 1850s US, there were pro-slavers and anti-slavers. Who was in the middle, and were they right?
But hey, I watch Democracy Now, 'cause I think the the real problems are corporate owned media and media centralization. At the very least, DN doesn't dominate the media.
Abraham Lincoln
Lincoln did change his mind but he seems to have changed it not because he had an epiphany about the evil of slavery, but because he became convinced during the war that it would be a total war and not a containable skirmish. once that logic was in play the Emancipation Proclamation made sense to issue. It also bolstered his support with abolitionists.
Today we have no ambiguity about the evil of slavery and view it as one of the greatest moral failings in our history and a legacy we are continuing to face down and one which has caused huge misery for millions of African-Americans. Even with this modern perspective, it's hard to view Lincoln as anything other than a conflicted man trying to weigh very heavy decisions indeed. So I dunno if he was right. I don't think Lincoln knew in his own time and I don't think we will ever be able to adequately judge. We know what happened but we don't know what else could have or should have happened instead.
I'd be (genuinely) curious to see what form Klingon-hating in the show could have taken that would have been similar in form but different enough that the writer'd not have labeled it white and Victorian. I'd like to know what the diff looks like between the two. Is "they have always attacked us before, so better to start shooting if you see them and skip the trying-to-talk-then-being-fired-on-anyway bits" necessarily white and Victorian?
[EDIT] and if it's not necessarily so, then what about the show's actual depiction was?
Those are racist/culturalist jabs meant to signal ingroup status to other bigots.
There is no deeper meaning behind why white and Victorian as opposed to Arab and working to establish the Caliphate or numerous other examples we can draw.
It's simply safe to express that kind of bigotry (and even popular in some groups).
The claim is that Star Trek's premise is a problem because it makes the flawed assumption that one culture can be better than another, and by extension, that all cultures must be valued and respected equally. Without going into the cultures of humanity in Star Trek versus the Klingons, you can examine similar claims closer to home even where some cultures are deeply invested in medieval-level cruelty like stoning of homosexuals and adulterers, female genital mutilation, and inhumane punishment by knife and cane. But these realities don't fit the author's narrative, and therefore must be ignored for the purposes of the thesis. Like Klingons, they're a benign minority who are simply misunderstood by their would-be cultural oppressors.
The article's ostensibility about science-fiction, and managed to stay on point for the first couple paragraphs, but it quickly devolved into the author's pet theories on race and gender. I really had trouble with these sorts of broad and totally unfair generalizations:
> Uhuru was a service worker and Worf was a punching bag; when the show made a black captain, was it a coincidence that the show also became “darker” and less optimistic, when its characters started to be “flawed” and “ambiguous”? Voyager had a female captain, but it marooned her to the farthest reaches of the galaxy (and the less said about the garbage politics of the reboot movies, the better).
That should have primed me for being confused later in the piece, I suppose.
[EDIT] the Sisko thing'd have had more weight if that show hadn't spent so much screen time openly dealing with humans (=the US, mostly, for production and character reasons) racist past (mind you, I like that aspect of DS9, even if it doesn't always make much in-universe sense)
Surely, Yeoman Rand...
Originally, the Federation was the US and the Klingons were the Soviets - this was of course before the Klingons became blood-wine drinking Neanderthals and were just swarthy space villains with Fu-Manchu moustaches.
It does not look at the broader question of "why did science fiction stop moving forward", but mostly Star Trek, with a few references to Battlestar Galactica and The Expanse.
I write this because when I saw "L.A. Review of Books" I thought it would include SF in books, and touch on things like Stephenson's Hieroglyph Project (See http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dear-science-fi... - "Dear Science Fiction Writers: Stop Being So Pessimistic!".)
snerk
But it's not just some cheap comedy. Yes there's campy humor that's basically the equivalent of TOS not taking itself quite seriously, but it's in every other way a proper modern day sequel to TNG, and the humor doesn't get in the way of that.
I'm not going to spoil the 3rd episode of it that just came out, but it's a "moral conundrum" episode of the likes TNG was famous for, except it's IMNSHO executed better than any such TNG episode. Those tended to get resolved with some Deus Ex Machina or something resembling a stereotypically happy American ending, but The Orville took the hard way out. I was very impressed.
1. For those unfamiliar with Star Trek: Approximately half of on-screen fatalities could be prevented by some combination of seatbelt usage, and the computer consoles not being powered by 100,000 volts of electricity with no fuses or circuit breakers[2].
2. The other half being prevented by not bringing no-name red shirts along on the away mission.
[0] See Galaxy Quest, which makes fun of the culture around ST as much as ST itself.
[1] Sometimes too much taking me out of it, first episode was the worst for this, it's improving.
For a geek who spent some formative years viewing ST:TNG, this show seems like it's about and for my people. :)
It's also a comedy, but the comedy is not parodying Star Trek. It's more like what Star Trek might have been if Star Trek had been meant as a comedy-drama instead of just a drama.
The first three episodes had some good jokes, and have took on a couple serious issues. They were OK, but not great, but that's fine. The first episodes of a show are more about building up background and establishing characters.
There were enough good elements in these episodes to hint that given time it can develop into a great show. But its on Fox, which is notorious for not giving science fiction shows enough time (see Firefly and Terra Nova).
The only good TV content I've seen recently is Expanse, which is quite well done. As others have mentioned, this is only limited to TV. SF Books/Movies are still popular enough .
and
>Why did science fiction stop moving forward.
Maybe because lots of sci-fi was optimistically wrong about the future of humanity? Or should I say that sci-fi covers both the good and bad things that could potentially happen. Some people don't realize the federation in Star Trek story was born from the ashes of a world war 3. If they made a show that covered that point of ST history it would still be science fiction, it would just be rather dark.
Also on the points of multiculturalism. When Star Trek was originally airing, there was little else on the air broadcasting a similar message. Now a large portion of TV is very multicultural, some of it to the point it forgets to have a story about anything else.
Da Shi joins Miles Teg as one of my fav scifi characters.
Books are where it's at.
https://tantor.com/narrator/john-lee.html
(Sadly he did not narrate Revenger, which is part of why I haven't experienced it yet. Thanks for the tip though and I'll add it to my list. John Lee did do all of the Revelation Space universe however, including the short stories.)
This struck me as strange. The Klingons started off as the violent bad guys in TOS. Then in TNG and DS9 there was an attempt to make them more admirable. In Discovery, I got the impression that the Klingons will be made more sympathetic in that we will be given more of a picture of their perception of the Federation, and why they perceive the Federation as a threat. Yes, Burnham is prejudiced against the Klingon race (or culture), but I don't think the message of the show will be anti-Klingon.