French chef asks to be stripped of three Michelin stars
theguardian.com
theguardian.com
In fact some places like Kyo Aji from Kenichiro Nishi - who is apparently a very good and famous chef - go as far as ban michelin tourists. Or at least try to.
Just look at this discussion on chowhound [2]. Interesting comment:
> Kyoaji is probably sick of rich foreigners trying to book via 5 star hotel concierges. Maybe change your strategy, and stay at a budget salaryman hotel and use their concierge?
[1]: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/24/business/worldbusiness/24g...
[2]: https://www.chowhound.com/post/secure-kyoaji-reservation-930...
[3]: https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/09/top-chefs-micheli...
You could just have your fancy concierge use the budget concierge.
I feel like this has a xenophobic undertone to it; nobody's showing up anywhere, it's a guide which attempts to find good restaurants and food around the globe; what makes the Japanese in his view so specially qualified to judge the food? If the food was only found to be tasteful for Japanese tastes then I doubt it would have made its way into the Michelin guide, no?
I suspect they are? I mean, if they weren't showing up then the restaurant would be out of business, no?
It does read a bit xenophobic, but it might be a pressure thing more than a nationality thing. People try to put pressure on those establishments. Sometimes, it's the chefs themselves who put the pressure on, sometimes it is visitors.
People have committed suicide due to the pressures involved in trying to get onto the list and to maintain, or increase, their stars. Failure is difficult and may even result in financial ruin, as if restaurants weren't already inherently risky.
So, I'm not sure that it is so much xenophobic as it is simply not wishing to be so publicly judged and/or pressured.
Sorry, I was under the impression that he's talking about the Michelin rating people showing up and telling them how good or bad his food is rather than simply visiting and writing a guide which contains his restaurant. I can understand the pressure of being on the list and maintaining one's position, but there's no reason why he couldn't let that slip; being lower on the list is better than not being on the list at all in terms of prestige, so he obviously doesn't care much what a "foreign" guide writes about him.
The idea that only Japanese people can judge Japanese food seems to me very xenophobic; if that wasn't his intention then he should have spoken in general rather than targeting "foreigners".
I'm not sure that qualifies as xenophobic, or even a bad thing. Should a Mexican restaurant be pressured into serving food that is more acceptable to the Canadian palate? (Pressured, not forced.)
From what I've read, and a documentary, it's pretty high stress to meet the expectations and to do things in a certain manner. I can understand the desire to get out from under that. By foreigners, it may mean, 'not my usual customers.'
So, I'm not sure if that's really xenophobic. I'm not seeing any fear involved, just displeasure about external pressures.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2015/11/01/issues/tac...
(Just a single example - but quick googling should you countless more from reputable sources)
A little nitpick, but "-phobia" suffix does not strictly mean fear, though that is its origin. It can also mean hatred.
>Should a Mexican restaurant be pressured into serving food that is more acceptable to the Canadian palate? (Pressured, not forced.)
No? I never said that; he shouldn't be pressured, but merely the act of serving foreigners or having his restaurant listed is not pressure to change -- in fact, if he changed, wouldn't that defeat the whole point of the rating system? He was rated on the Japanese food he serves, not the Canadian food.
It's another facet of gentrification. A restaurant owner may really love having a small, local clientele of regulars and a very good atmosphere due to that fact. Then one day he gets awarded a Michelin star and suddenly thousands of tourists descend on his place and swamp it with unwanted business. Is it xenophobic to suggest he might prefer to go back to the previous situation?
I believe free trade is a good thing, but seems like many americans mistook free trade for gunboat diplomacy (see opening of Japan). In my understanding free trade is free as in free will: both parties voluntarily take part in the exchange of goods and services.
Also one can be patriotic in a way that he/she (no xe!) wants to preserve the cultural heritage, which is not only buildings and artifacts in museums, but also customs. Customs can be preserved by people sustaining them by continuously acting according to them. Local customs can be ruined pretty quickly via a huge influx of tourists.
Example: In my younger day I could see elderly people sitting in the small parks around playgrounds and children playing at some parts of the city. Now in these parts of the city what I can see is playgrounds have been closed. Public places have been closed, no elderly talking, playing chess on a summer afternoon. Instead there are "party tourists" littering, being loud and drunk an sometimes acting atrociously as early as 2pm on weekdays. A local custom (socialization of the locals) has been wiped by tourism. Slowly locals are freeing the "party district".
I can understand why one wants to avoid such situation (even as Michelin -tourists are not this troublesome, but starts a trend, which can even lead here). Is this xenophobic, then be so. I understand why people want to be xenophobic then.
Lots of people don't like xenophobia.
> have the right to choose who to do business with?
Ah here we go. Like the hoteliers who don't allow gay people to stay ?
Ultimately, why would you want to support someone who doesn't want you to be there?
Regardless, you've given me a new thing to think about. It's a complex issue for sure.
Modern travel is big specifically because the world is diverse place. If all societies would try to include anyone from anywhere, they'd become similar and traveling wouldn't be as great.
Including outsiders in the society doesn't make societies less diverse. If anything it's making them more diverse because otherwise similar societies might include different outsiders and differ more because of that.
Mix-mashing all societies just get them to lowest common denominator. Similar societies usually receive similar outsiders. Sometimes even outsiders from same place. Which just makes them even more similar. For example, north Germany and Bavaria are quite different places and have different culture. Yet same set of immigrants come to both. Local food is different, but kebabs are the same.
If each society can choose who they want to accept and who they don't want... Then we can agree that each society can judge for itself.
And lots of people don't like foreigners.
> Like the hoteliers who don't allow gay people to stay ?
Even that is OK in my opinion. The market will sort it out. There are clubs where gay people can have a good time. If gay accomodation becomes a niche market, there will be people seizing that opportunity. The law shall not discriminate people, but telling people what to think and forcing them doing stuff they don't agree with is dictatorship.
Allowing this kinds of things in public space wouldn't advance humanity.
If you have a book that gives more nuance to this "a private buisness is not a public space" I would be glad to read it.
And that's morally wrong.
I also don't like junkies. Is that also wrong? Why do you tell me what i should like, and based on what ethics do you tell me what is morally right?
What if I tell you that liking foreigners is morally wrong where I live? We don't hurt them, but we don't like them because they keep telling us what we should do, and keep trying to conquer us for a millennia? Still we live in peace since a long time, we treat our guests well, but we don't categorically like them. Each and every guest can become an individually liked person, and even unliked ones are treated fairly (given a fair trial before execution ;) Hint for autists: It was a joke)
Jokes aside: Is this immoral? Why?
Is it morally wrong to hate someone who chooses to drink? Not really.
Is it morally wrong to hate someone born addicted to opioids, or born with fetal alcohol syndrome? Of course.
Being born "foreign" is no different, especially if you, as this chef does, live in a country where "nationality" is coterminous with "ethnicity" to the point multi-generational immigrant groups (ethnically Korean Japanese, for example) are considered "Not Japanese" by many Japanese people.
But actually not like and hate are the same only in your dictionary.
You're just being deliberately obtuse, now.
I thought we were talking about this comment. You created a strawman, and now use derogatory comment toward me. This makes me end this discussion here.
So will flamewars, which you've unfortunately made this site worse by participating in.
Please read the rules (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) and don't do these things again.
Maybe anti-racism is simply unpopular around here.
Is this against the rules?
If you don't want to be banned on HN, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.
If you don't want to be banned on HN, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.
Depending on the country no. In France at least, that's not how it works.
He said "how can a bunch of foreigners tell us what is good or bad."
There is no undertone, its explicitly xenophobic.
This is totally a wrong interpretation of what I was saying. I was only commenting on that line in particular, not saying that what he was doing in general is bad, but the pernicious idea that only Japanese are qualified to judge Japanese food is something I find needlessly exclusive and overall false; this is what is xenophobic, not the desire to shut one's restaurant off in the face of pressure. However if he is only shutting it off to "foreigners" then it really is xenophobic to do so, but understandable nevertheless.
It's Japanese food for a reason. That's how Japanese see it and that's the taste they value. Once everybody start judging it, it's likely to change to match their tastes. Japanese food made to taste good for non-Japanese wouldn't be Japanese food anymore. Japanese-inspired? Yep.
It's like pizza. Is Hawaii pizza "Italian food"? I wouldn't say so. I know many people who can't stand true Italian pizza, but love all those Italian-pizza-inspired foods.
If the places doesn't give a fuck and keeps serving only Hawaii pizza, they'll keep having disappointed customers and 1-star reviews without much explanation. They could bend over and start making special pizza for those occasions. But that'd destroy some of the charm for the people who absolutely love pineapples on their pizzas.
I guess this is loose-loose situation. The only solution could be if people gave either good review or no review at all. But then some objective criticism would be lost...
Don't know what's happened since then, but I remember the name because it's the only Michelin restaurant I've ever dined in. Small world coming across it on HN!
For what it's worth, the staff was pleasant and welcomed us as foreigners, asking where we were visiting from. Kadowaki came by at the end of the meal to put the finishing touches on his signature dish, and was just as welcoming. Pricey though!
An exaggerated analogy: someone who’s never had wine buys a bottle recommended by a highly respected wine expert, tries it, and goes, “Oh, that really is good!”
This model is harder for restaurants, they actually want to avoid these Pokémon-style foodies and find the people that really appreciate the food. Not sure what the model would be for restaurants. Once you hit 3 stars you stop accepting tourists?
You can call it xenophobic, it probably is, but likely it's based on real experiences.
So can foreigners who are familiar with Japanese food, or non-ethnically Japanese people in Japan. I understand your analogy to pop-culture nerds but I don't think it applies here - one can become on the same level as the nerd and talk to him in that way, but this chef is exclusionary and saying that no matter how much expreience a "foreigner" has with Japanese food, he can never understand it or properly judge it. This is not unique to Japanese food, I have seen this exact line echoed by a famous Japanese architect too with regard to his work.
If he so wishes he should cater to people familiar with food, if anything those people are more "on his level" than a random Japanese person, so I really can't see why he's drawing the line at "Japanese" rather than at "familiar and experienced with food". I'm sure most Japanese just gulp down the food, and some surely do complain.
Real experience or not, I think this kind of attitude has little place in modern society.
You're torturing the quote to look for intent that simply is not there. Maybe he does feel that there is no level of assimilation sufficient to judge Japanese food, but it's simply not there. It's an imprecise blanket statement made in the context of reviewers showing off their lack of assimilation with judgements seen as very incongruous with local tastes.
meh, shrug. If this was any local cuisine other than Japanese -- who we have been taught to see as xenophobic -- the obvious follow-on retort wouldn't be about xenophobia, but about appropriation and generally more defensive of the culture's prerogative to define itself.
Budget hotels have concierges?
I don’t speak French, but here’s the video announcing it: https://www.facebook.com/BrasOfficiel/videos/vb.190323656659...
He basically says that he does not want the pressure to preserve his 3-stars status, has no grudge with the Michelin guide that he thanks, and wants to continue his little business without caring more about rating than about the "art de vivre" of his region.
Totally get it, and totally agree. The meaning I take from the video: "Let us do our best without worrying about being judged every second of every day." Must be exhausting to be in that situation.
Bravo!
Thanks for the translation by the way.
If he's willing to lose stars to get rid of the pressure, he can simply ignore the judges.
I'm reminded of Ron Blaauw, a Dutch 2-star chef who was also tired of the pressure of his 2-star fine-dining restaurant (not sure if it was Michelin or just the kind of restaurant), so he started his more informal "Gastrobar" for just a quick bite instead of Michelin-level dining, and was immediately awarded a star for it.
A do understand how receiving a Michelin star can bring in different clientele that changes the atmosphere of the restaurant for the worse.
You cannot allow yourself to not be perfect. For example, you cannot serve something new where you know it is really good but fails a bit on the texture side or it is hard to produce so the quality varies a bit, not a lot, but a bit.
If he goes out of the system, he can reintroduce this little bit of freedom.
As a programming analogy, 3 stars is like every single piece of code you produce is perfectly structured, integrates nicely in the software, respects the conventions and idioms, has no code debt. You cannot just patch a bit and see how the users react and refactor later. It must be perfect for the user from low level code to the interaction as soon as you put it in the hands of real users.
I am full of respect for such decision.
It seems reasonably clear that the ongoing cost in terms of anxiety and, to some extent, the freedom to change or loosen up things is simply not worth the accolade to him anymore. The article states: "because of the huge pressure of being judged on every dish he serves... and the anxiety over Michelin’s anonymous food judges, who could arrive at his restaurant at any moment... “You’re inspected two or three times a year, you never know when. Every meal that goes out could be inspected. That means that, every day, one of the 500 meals that leaves the kitchen could be judged. “Maybe I will be less famous but I accept that,” he said, adding that he would continue to cook excellent local produce “without wondering whether my creations will appeal to Michelin’s inspectors”."
So, he's quitting on his own terms. Assuming it's not a rash decision borne from burn-out or some temporary phase or state of mind then I think it's admirable.
Presumably there is also a lot of constraint when making up dishes of the sort of "Would a Michelin reviewer score this well?" which is different from "Is this an excellent dish?"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/01/benoit-violier...
There was a book written about the Loiseau event (reads like it was supposed to be a biography at first, of which the suicide obviously overtook the narrative): The Perfectionist: Life and Death in Haute Cuisine [0].
[0] https://www.amazon.com/Perfectionist-Life-Death-Haute-Cuisin...
Well played!
I want to emphasize though that some of the highest performing chefs don't fit this model I'm talking about, to be completely fair. I think they would agree with my assessment however, at least in many cases.
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Google "Le suquet", and in the Google tagline, you get: "Le Suquet at Laguiole the three star gastronomic restaurant of Sébastien Bras."
He'd rather Le Suquet be forever known as "the place that was 3 stars until the Chef told the reviewers to fuck off" rather than "the place that was 3 stars but isn't any more because quality control has slipped".
It's not like Michelin forces him to do anything. Perhaps put a note on the door: "Sorry, I do what I like and at any moment your expectations based on Michelin's stars may be different from what I want to do with my restaurant."
Anyway, the 500 meals a day are judged, by more important people, your customers.
Keeping your Michelin stars is definitely a form of publicity, and a more lasting one at that than a temporary stunt just to get some press.
So it would seem to me like a bad move to do this only for publicity.
There, now, the reader gets most of the information content right away.
It sounds like he wants to be able to relax the quality without hurting his reputation. I can't help but to feel that it's disingenuous somehow, but maybe I'm being unreasonable.
Movie stars generally seem to feel it's harrowing to have your every single move and word scrutinized and photographed. Maybe this is the same way.
Or do you do your best work when you are free to focus on the problem at hand?
(To the detriment of the field, IMO. But I fully admit that is a debatable point.)
Compare to if he lost a star and then said he didn't care anyway. Who would interpret that as anything other than sour grapes?
If he wants to cook his own style (which I can totally understand) he has to put up with it. I am not shielded from my life decisions, either.
It may be different standards, not necessarily relaxed standards. I think we can give him the benefit of doubt.
It sounds to me like he wants to be more adventurous.
http://fortune.com/2014/12/11/michelin-star-restaurants-down... https://elpais.com/elpais/2014/12/02/inenglish/1417521188_19...