The problem here in Spain/Catalonia is that Catalonian politicians only want Catalonians to vote. I feel that, being a Spanish citizen of legal age, I have the same right to vote on whether I want a part of my country to separate from it. But they won't let us vote, so, why should "we" let them vote? (Also, as per the constitution, it is illegal)
Would you let, let's say, France vote on your general elections to chose the next MP? Would you let a stranger choose the colour of the walls for your living room?
Only Catalans can decide their own fate. It's up to them and no one else whether they stay or leave. I don't care which side wins but there must be a vote.
Only Scotland voted on their referendum, as agreed by the whole United Kingdom. USA did not allow southern states secede, Germany did not allow Bavaria secede, etc.
The same was true of the Scottish referendum. And the Quebec referendums.
I'm not really for or against anything here, but it doesn't make any sense to have everyone vote in a secession referendum. It should be a referendum among the people attempting to secede.
I could see there being a universal referendum on the wording of the referendum and the terms of secession though.
If a son or daughter of legal age wants to move out of their parents' house, does the rest of the family get to stop them from moving?
Do you honestly believe this is a logical demand? If so, what % of "pro-independence" of Spanish census would be enough for you, 51% of whole Spain?
Lets face it the lead up to both referendums were based on packs of lies (on both sides probably - but it can only be proven for the winning sides).
New York people can't wake up some day, like a single man, and decide that Texans (or Floridians, or afroamericans), can not enter in the state anymore, their basic rights are expired and they have 48 hours to quit the place leaving its properties behind. Some people would point to the fair "self-determination right" from Newyorkers. Some even would shamelesly call this situation democracy, but it isn't. Would be a huge scam. NY are only a small part of the people that are USA citizens, and the other people have the f*ing right to express their opinion about that. No matter how peculiar, colorful, or different than other places is the city.
In the same way Barcelona can not wake up some day and decide that people from Sevilla aren't allowed anymore to decide about the future of Barcelona and must quit the place. Unless of course we would aim to happily nuke the basic rights of 39 millions of citizen that are non-catalonian spaniards (to improve the chances for the 1-2 million of people than want Catalonia out of Spain). Is also a scam. Is a riged game. Democracy is the rule of the majority, and this constant actitude of I'm holier than thou so I must be allowed to speak but you can't is incredibly upsetting.
Think that has nothing to do with a part of an state voting their secession and not the whole country.
A question to all of the people that say that the whole country should vote.
What would you do if more than 70% of the population of a part of the state would be independent? Allow them the independence and start the negotiations or don't allow>
So if one of each ten people voted for "yes to A", and the other nine people voted for "no to A". What should happen in a democratic system?.
Well, the idea here is that you has the freedom to choose among two nice options: "yes to A" and "repeat the process until yes to A is achieved" or "start negociations to circumnavigate what people really wanted". But this is not a dictatorship, of course; we are a democratic modern society unlike the spaniards, those savages.
And talking about semi-naked savages, this reminds me that extra-nice 2008 campaign launched by Catalonian independentists: "support a spanish child with more money from Catalonia". It seems that this is how they see the other spaniards. Nice image. It isn't?.
http://img.rtve.es/imagenes/apadrina-nino-extremeno/12174362...
Because poor children is a perfectly fine theme to make some good laughs (They are poor, ha-haa!).
To finish, and taking in mind several harassments and repeated BS like this in the last decade, I think that a lot of people in Spain would vote enthusiastically about sending this people out of Spain, even better, why not to Mars?, to build the New Castelldefells and live their futuristic utopia happy forever in the red planet.
If a 70% of the population of a territory (and I'm not talking about Catalonia, because there is no majority for independence) wants to secede, what the State should do?
I did, and have provided a very clear answer to the question in fact.
What the government of a country should do if a group of people declare themselves on sedition, start refusing to pay taxes, wants to steal all public resources, harass and drive out of the place the people that think different, take their properties and piss generously on the constitutional rights of the majority of the citizens?
Enforce the law, obviously
"But, but, I want to ignore and twist the law in my benefit!. I should be allowed to do it, because I'm special!, my mom told me!"
You can violate the laws everytime that you want, as long as you accept the consequences, and repair the damage caused to other members of the society.
I'm asking what happens if in a part of a territory the vast majority of population doesn't want to be part of that country.
If you want to talk of Catalonia, I can ask what the Central Government can do when 82% of the population (and this includes half of people that wants independence and half of people that doesn't want independence) would defend a LEGAL and proper done referendum.
The answer to your deliberately ambiguous question is the same. Enforce the law.
> What if a lot of people do not want to remain in this country?
They will pack, leave and try to migrate and be accepted under the umbrella of other countries typically. It is happening a lot in the last decades, by good (and sad) reasons.
> What if the majority of people would hate their country (but want to remain in it).
They could use the tools specified in the law to change the bad parts and improve their country democratically. As they are a majority, they are probably doing this yet since years. They must have in mind still that there are international laws and treaties.
> What would happen if 100% of USA demand the independence from themselves and require to be called "Pantsdemonium, the land of the pants-free" from now on?
Just a change of name (and interesting parties, like the national day of the duck and so). On the other hand, if you can't stand to be in the same room with yourself, go to see a doctor as soon as possible.
> and if it was the 90%?
A change of name plus a 10% of people driven off their own country, typically by violent means, if we study the human history.
> and if it was the 85.45342%?
the same... and more people in exodus.
My question is not ambiguous.
And looking at your "hate", I think that you prefer what happened in Jugoslavia and not what happened in Czechoslovakia
In the Spanish case, there's only one part, so a nice analogy here is body amputation.