Ask HN: is it bad to leave in the middle of turmoil?

If they feel you've left them in the lurch, you won't get good references, regardless of what happens.

As much as money doesn't magically make everything better, ask for more. It's mercenary, but you're likely doing much more work to accomodate the 2 who left (whether directly or indirectly). More $ for the short term will make it easier to go write your book at the end of the year.

If you have a short term goal, imo, suck it up and try to make the best of it (which, ime, would include more $ somehow). If you can afford to leave now and just start on your book, it may be better for your sanity and attitude to just do that instead.

You're in a situation with no easy answers.

Alternatively, you could also offer to take over the projects. Go direct to the C-level crew and tell them you're going to be put in charge of the project, you need $x dollars, and authority over the project to get it done. If the project is that important, they may give it to you, or tell you to pound sand. So... go pound sand.

It sounds like you couldn't do any worse than the ball-droppers.

This probably sounds like all pie-in-the-sky fantasy, but if you don't ask, you don't get.

> Alternatively, you could also offer to take over the projects. Go direct to the C-level crew and tell them you're going to be put in charge of the project, you need $x dollars, and authority over the project to get it done. If the project is that important, they may give it to you, or tell you to pound sand.

I love this so much. This is magnificent, absolutely magnificent. It's from the school of, "If you don't want to do it, just ask for a totally ridiculous amount" - then you're either getting something ridiculous or you're out, which you wanted anyways.

>Alternatively, you could also offer to take over the projects. Go directly to the C-level crew and tell them you're going to be put in charge of the project, you need $x and authority over the project to get it done.

Although I agree with the rest of your post, I don't think this is a particularly good idea. From what I've seen of politically fraught projects, asking for authority just gets you more entangled in the bullshit that's dragging down the project. Its best to just put in the work that's asked of you and start hunting for greener pastures.

The C-level folks made the bed. Its not your job to sleep in it.

1) Business is business. I find that companies and managers talk about loyalty from employees but if they're budget gets cut you're out the door in a heartbeat. You need to do what's right for you, in regards to stress level and your career, just like a business will do what's in it's best interest.

2) References aren't much to count on these days. Some large companies won't give them as a policy (good or bad). Furthermore, if they're going to give you a bad reference now, they will likely do it in 6 months too.

3) It's hard to predict who will freak out and who won't. I've seen people who normally freak out take it very calmly and even, nicely. And then I've seen someone who is normally calm (and who I'd done a lot for) get angry at me when I left with plenty of notice and not in a crunch time.

4) If the rats are already abandoning ship, go with them. When I have left a couple of places, it did trigger a couple of other people to quit and when I inquired back to the companies, it only got worse and worse. I've seen that happen for other people too. The moral of the story is get out while you can.

   Step 1: Get a better job offer somewhere else
   Step 2: Accept said offer
   Step 3: Give notice at your current job.  "Sorry to leave you guys in the lurch, but this amazing opportunity opened up for me, and I just had to take it!"
   Step 4, Optional: Offer to come in to the old job for a day or two, on the weekend, to help out, just to grease the wheels a bit, and show that you're leaving on good terms, as a team player.

The problem with step 1 is that I was going to leave at the end of the year to go write a book. Maybe I could just say that? I just feel like it's going to look like I am quitting because this project sucks... er... because IS why I am quitting.

There's no point in looking for another job if you were planning to leave this one for the book anyways.

Why not pull your timeline forward and use the book as the excuse?

Regardless of the reason you end up using, I'm in favor of doing whatever it takes to leave on a good note. Think long term. Always.

"I just feel like it's going to look like I am quitting because this project sucks... er... because IS why I am quitting."

Sounds like you answered your own question.

Would you really WANT a reference from these people?

I'm guessing no -- they're legally bound to confirm that you worked there, but your references should be people that you've worked with, trust, and respect. I NEVER list managers that have clusterfucked projects as references, I always choose people who've worked with me and that I respected technically as well as personally. (Some of whom WERE managers, but that's exceedingly rare.)

However, I would like to maintain good terms with this company and get good references in the future

Before this project, would they have had good things to say about you? Then those should still apply despite the coincidental timing of your resignation with a really crappy project.

It really depends on the people involved and who would be doing the reference, and when the reference would come. Asking a direct manager for a reference three weeks after leaving them in the middle of a death march will likely not result in glowing praise.

It sounds like he is not looking to dive right into another job (he was going to write a book next). Maybe if he asks for that reference 6 months from now?

There's really no such thing as "a good time to leave." There is always something that requires your attention.

Give your notice and leave. They don't need a reason; if they ask, simply say you're looking for a new experience.

It's a business, not your best friend.

"However, I would like to maintain good terms with this company and get good references in the future."

Don't many companies now have a policy that they never give references, just confirm job title and dates of employment, to avoid being sued?

I can't really add anything to what others have mentioned.

The only thing you may want to do is talk to those 2 people who quit and ask for their advice. Perhaps they saw this disaster coming...

2 month isn't that long.

Trudge through it & a month from now tell them you plan on quitting once the project is done (1 month notice is more than enough).

What will your references be like if the project ends up going up in flames? (Through no fault of your own -- but who's going to know and/or admit that?)

And does the company even provide references, as a matter of policy? (More and more don't.) If you're concerned about having references, as others have suggested here I'd suggest cultivating references personally amongst your colleagues and contacts. Pick the ones you respect and who respect you. And do it now, before you begin a break up -- or the company does. (Beware of tipping colleagues off -- where such may be detrimental -- though, given the nature of the immediate situation you're describing.)

If you want to make your departure seem "less personal", tell them you have an opportunity you can't pass up. You don't necessarily have to tell them what that is. (If they ask, maybe tell them it's in stealth mode? -- or some term that doesn't sound as hokey or potentially bs, depending on your background and what would or would not seem plausible.)