The iPhones 8 | Hacker News Reader

The iPhones 8

daringfireball.net

115 pointsmsh116 comments

This was a weirdly subdued review by Gruber, it even brings up areas where competitors have been doing something for a while without going through the normal Gruberian mental gymnastics to justify it. He even brings up Apple's inexplicable need to have a 16 GB base model until this year without trying to justify it. Gruber often gets himself in trouble by omission as much as by the circus-show of what he writes. But there's very little of that here.

This reads like an honest review.

My tl;dr of it is "It's a solid year over year update from the 7."

note Not to worry, his previous articles will send the critically thinking reader down the road to infuration just like one might expect...I was afraid Gruber was losing his edge.

All of the phones Apple released are boring, so it's kind of not surprising that people aren't worked up about it.

At least to people who watch gadgets. The Mi Mix was a revelation, the iPhone X is just what people expected before all the leaks, with the exception of FaceID, which got leaked.

Still, every time I see someone writing about Apple design, it seems like it's great when Apple does it - its even better than last year's model! - but it's always bad when competitors were.

I'm still completely jealous of iPhone battery life though.

> the iPhone X is just what people expected

But that's the point of iPhones nowadays, isn't it? Shipping features only when they feel ready (e.g. I guess this [1] won't be possible with Face ID). I switched from Android to iOS when I decided that I want a boring (but elegant) smartphone that bothers me as little as possible.

> Apple design, it seems like it's great when Apple does it

What many of their customers value, I think, is that Apple tends to get the big picture and the details right quite often.

The big picture: When I buy an Apple phone, I can be quite sure not to see this on the default lockscreen: [2].

The details: [3]. You don't have to appreciate this level of detail, but some people do.

That being said, not even Gruber claims that recent iPhones are "perfect" design-wise. [4] Just more detail-oriented than most competitors.

> I'm still completely jealous of iPhone battery life though.

Bought an iPhone 7 ½ year ago. I don't think battery life is anything to be jealous about. I hear good things about the Plus models though.

[1] http://www.businessinsider.com/samsung-galaxy-note-8-facial-...

[2] https://twitter.com/dcseifert/status/905104470429851648

[3] https://www.imore.com/sites/imore.com/files/styles/larger/pu...

[4] https://daringfireball.net/2017/09/iphone_x_event_thoughts_a... (Footnote 1)

> I want a boring (but elegant) smartphone that bothers me as little as possible.

Exactly this. It's why I run OSX instead of Linux on the desktop - I'm old and I resent having to catherd my gadgets. If I have to tweak anything, it generally goes in the bin.

The thing is, macOS is objectively worse than Linux in certain respects, e.g. the UI's placement of window close next to other window controls (oddly, the old Macintosh OS did this correctly) or shipping the less-featureful BSD userland rather than the GNU userland, or shipping an old & outdated bash.

But I enjoy making my tools work better. I don't compile my kernel anymore, I don't build my own computers, but I do enjoy making my environment work better, faster, simpler and more powerfully.

> shipping the less-featureful BSD userland rather than the GNU userland, or shipping an old & outdated bash.

You think that's an intentional choice Apple made? If you spent even a moment looking into it you'd realize the GNU user land has a license that purposely roadblocks companies like Apple from using it.

I'm not saying Apple or GNU is to blame, they have different philosophies with their own benefits and drawbacks, but to pretend it's only one side's fault is a bit naive.

> You think that's an intentional choice Apple made?

Yes, because they do ship some GPL software (and provide the source code for it); they choose not to ship more, and they choose not to give their customers the source code to the software they purchase.

I don't know if Apple could make money selling hardware with open source software, but I do believe that morally it should.

They used to ship quite a bit of GPL software, but have been progressively removing as much of it as they can as fast as they can. There's very little GPL left in macOS and I bet they would kill it immediately if it was practical.

I know it counts as a tweak, but install spectacles and never bother about the window controls again - last time I clicked one was, um, not actually sure it's been so long!

I can't remember the last time I used the close button on a window. Occasionally use the zoom button when I can't remember the shortcut for maximise / fullscreen and when I've forgotten Spectacles is installed (I said I was old, right?)

> The thing is, macOS is objectively worse than Linux in certain respects

Maybe, but one of the most important aspects to me (managing multiple monitors with different DPIs), Linux is a joke.

I love Linux, GNOME 3 is even a pretty decent desktop environment. IntelliJ and friends run just fine on it, Evolution works okay enough with my work Exchange account, GNOME Boxes provides adequate virtualization of Windows 10 when I need Visual Studio.

But you know what? Power management SUCKS. I've got a work-issued Lenovo W540 running Fedora 26, and while it gets the job done even light web browsing drains the battery like crazy - sure this thing has a power-hungry 65W CPU but it's also got a stupid big battery jutting out the back of it to match.

There's also the death by a thousand cuts issue to the desktop user experience, Evolution works just "okay", meanwhile Mail.app/Calendar.app/Contacts.app work flawlessly with Exchange like I'd expect them to; Boxes is a PITA compared to VMWare Fusion and audio support is still broken for Windows 8+ - VMWare Workstation locks my whole machine up or I'd just use it; Bluetooth audio is still rather janky to use; even USB audio is a bit janky, if I turn my sound down below ~30% my Corsair USB headset just goes mute.

I'm hopeful one of these days the biggest nag I have, power management, gets better on more recent hardware - until then I'll certainly prefer a Mac.

You sound like a Red Hat employee. In fairness, it may be less of a power management issue and more of a mediocre laptop issue. The last laptop that I had (T540p) was a similar experience to yours, especially after it was a few years old. The new P50 that replaced it has similar specs, no bulging battery, and can last for 4 hours+ even under pretty heavy load (lightly loaded could be closer to 8 hours).

I won't disagree with you about the software experience that you describe, though. Evolution is absolutely horrible. Boxes is horrible, but I really liked virt-manager for server virtualization once I got used to it.

I used to have tons of issues with Bluetooth, but none so far with Fedora 26 (knock on wood). It definitely wouldn't surprise me if that experience is still uneven, and Bluetooth in general is pretty mediocre.

How much of that is down to leaks though - every apple product over the last few years has had serious leaks well before launch (touch bar on the new MBP and pretty much the entirety of the Iphone X feature set), whereas the Mi Mix didn't.

> He even brings up Apple's inexplicable need to have a 16 GB base model until this year without trying to justify it.

He's been ranting about that for years. Here's his review of the iPhone 6 three years ago:

> But I don’t understand why the entry level storage tier remained at a meager 16 GB. That seems downright punitive given how big panoramic photos and slo-mo HD videos are, and it sticks out like a sore thumb when you look at the three storage tiers together... That’s just wrong. This is the single-most disappointing aspect of the new phones.

Yeah, Gruber has been surprisingly tolerable this cycle. Don't get me wrong, he's always had substantive criticisms of Apple products, it's just that the substantive criticisms have always been sandwiched between gigantic layers of over-the-top absurd fanboyism.

This review reads like it's a basically positive review from an Apple fan. Which is, I guess, by Gruber's standards, the most negative review possible.

There are some turds that even Gruber will refuse to polish.

  A lot of people out there have been asking me who the 
  iPhone 8 is for, other than people who can’t or don’t 
  want to spend $999 or more on an iPhone X.

Well... Jesus. "Only cheapskates buy the 8", apparently.

I pre-ordered the 8 Plus, because:

- It was available a month sooner and I need a new phone.

- The 8 Plus has all the same internals and features. I really just wanted the camera.

- Face unlock seems gimmicky. Maybe next generation.

- $200+ for what amounts to a "better" screen and "cooler" form factor: not worth it.

So I guess I do fall into the "don't want to spend $999" category. Look down on me, pedants!

Don’t take it personally, nobody call you cheapskate.

What I actually think that he means is that there is pretty much no difference between the two, other than the price and the form factor.

But I will give you one more reason to not stick with 8: it’s a safer bet, it’s the fourth iteration of a well tested design, so I don’t expect to have any problems. On the other hand I am afraid the usual first Apple product generation problems will be there in X.

Why not order a 7?

The 8 has a better camera.

Inductive charging!

I do like inductive charging, but I often find myself futzing about on my phone in bed at the end of the day, and my phone's on 5%. So I plug it in and keep using it. Hard to do that with inductive charging.

Granted, my current iPhone is literally dying a protracted death[1], so YMMV.

[1] Battery jumps around, screen doesn't work half the time, etc.

The telephoto camera in the X is a little better. f2/4 vs f2.8. Do they both have optical image stabilization? Any other differences?

On the X, both rear cameras have optical image stabilization. On the 8 Plus, only the wide angle camera has optical image stabilization.

I have yet to see how FaceID pans out, but the extra $200 may be worth the smaller form factor yet bigger screen and weight reduction. I'm definitely waiting to see.

with regards to face unlock, will it always try to unlock when just viewing notifications or text? I would not mind facial if it also had finger unlock; use the side if you have too; because there is so much usage with the form of id unlock I don't want to give up.

and finally I still cannot get past the notch, it is atrocious to me and from a UI perspective the contortions they must have went through to sign off on it have to be astounding.

> will it always try to unlock when just viewing notifications or text?

I believe you have to swipe also, so it won't automatically unlock just because you look at it. That would be annoying because it would move notifications off the screen just when you're starting to look at them.

How about people who don't want a giant phone?

iPhone 8? All those points apply (I think?) and you save even more money over the X. Or the SE, if you want to go smaller but the internals there are a bit older now.

I meant that it is said as if the iPhone X is the best phone, if you are willing to pay for it. But some people are only willing to deal with non-Plus sized phone, at most.

The X is very close in size to the non-Plus phones. (As someone who doesn't mind big phones, I'm really hoping for an X Plus next year.)

The main distinction is the dual camera on the Plus, which let's you do the portrait modes they demonstrated. The other difference is battery life. As someone that went from 7 to 7 Plus, it is a considerable improvement. Portrait mode really is amazing, too, it would be hard to go back to a normal sized iPhone now.

The main advantage of the X, that I see, other than OLED screen, is that you get a display closer to the Plus in a much more reasonable form factor. For some, the Plus is still too large.

For some, the non-plus is still too large.

The iPhone 8 is roughly the same size as the iPhone X.

The iPhone 8 Plus is roughly the same size as the X, not the iPhone 8.

No. The iPhone 8 Plus screen size is roughly comparable to the iPhone X, but since the bezels are gone, the iPhone X is significantly smaller in physical size.

You can see size comparisons here: https://www.imore.com/iphone-8-vs-iphone-x-which-should-you-...

ah, my mistake, i was just looking at the numbers on apple's comparison tool. thanks for the correction.

Real answer: the X (5.65" x 2.79") is a little bigger than the 8 (5.45" x 2.65"), but smaller than the 8 Plus (6.24" x 3.07").

ah, my mistake, i was just looking at the numbers on apple's comparison tool. thanks for the correction.

Nope: the body of the iPhone 8 & iPhone X are almost the same size.

https://www.cnet.com/news/iphone-x-iphone-8-size-comparison/

ah, my mistake, i was just looking at the numbers on apple's comparison tool. thanks for the correction.

The iPhone 8 does not have dual cameras, which for some people is the key reason for going with a Plus-sized model. I hate how big my 7 Plus is, but I bought it for the cameras. I look forward to having a smaller dual-camera phone — either the X or a subsequent model.

They're roughly the same size although the X does have a much larger screen. However they're removing the reachability feature which means that a good chunk of that larger screen will be difficult to use one handed, which won't be true of the 8.

Ha! You'll probably be texting like a caveman. At least you'll probably still be able to view the Animojis we send you.

I find the price arguments mostly moot since many people will see the 8 for ~$40/month and the X for ~$50/month.

On top of that, people who upgrade all of the time will resell their device in a year so again they will not ever see the full $1k price.

I think the 8/8plus may just be a better phone because it's using refined technology at this point. Apple 1st gen stuff can be very hit/miss, so I'm a little skeptical of the X.

The LCD on the iPhone 8 is extremely good. It's still a substantial upgrade over an iPhone 7.

> These are solid year-over-year updates — at least as impressive as the iPhone 7 was over the iPhone 6S. If they hadn’t debuted alongside the iPhone X we’d be arguing about whether these are the most impressive new iPhone models since the iPhone 6. There’s a lot to love about them and nothing to dislike.

People who buy the iPhone 8 won't feel the satisfaction of owning the latest and greatest iPhone. That's what makes this update boring. It's already out of date.

I ordered one. I have a 6 and predict it will be tremendously satisfying in comparison. Like the Touchbar, I just couldn't get over the Notch. But I realize I might be an outlier.

People who want a great phone buy the 8. People who are Apple fanatics and/or too rich and/or need a status symbol buy the X.

I'm personally considering the X because I suspect folks will do cool stuff with the new sensors. The dot projector, in particular, seems like it may be useful for 3D mapping of objects - would be pretty cool to wave your phone at something and be able to send the scan straight to a printer.

I didn't find any APIs for the new sensors - are those even exposed to the developers?

Not directly but ARKit exposes face tracking, expressions and other info: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/fall2017/601/

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/arkit/creating_fac...

Unfortunately, Apple being Apple - doesn't expose those new sensors in any APIs.

And thank god for that. The face recognition data goes in the secure enclave and stays there.

The last thing I need is Snapchat to say "We need access to the facial scan for new video filters!" and then using it to measure microexpressions in response to ad displays.

They could conceivably provide APIs that refuse to give detailed scans when a face is detected.

Can't you do that with the regular camera? The only reason you need the grid projector is for getting a detailed 3D model.

Haven't checked, but I assume that (like TouchID) they do provide APIs to use it for authentication, but they refuse to give any more data than that.

> The only reason you need the grid projector is for getting a detailed 3D model.

That's what I want it for.

TouchID isn't very useful outside of fingerprinting. The dot projector I could see a wide variety of really neat, innovative uses by third-party devs if it can be made accessible.

Given how explicit Federighi has been about the FaceID data staying on-device in the secure enclave, with not even Apple having access to it, I think it's very unlikely they'll change their stance on that.

The moment 3rd party devs have access to the scanner, it'd be siphoned off by somebody's ad framework and then sold for biometric ad targeting in nearby stores or god knows what else.

Hence my saying:

> They could conceivably provide APIs that refuse to give detailed scans when a face is detected.

Oh I see, I'd read that as generating some kind of simplified "generic face" model to use for face features without biometric identifiers, but you're talking about using the grid projector for more generic stuff like people had done with Kinekt sensors?

Yes, exactly. 3D scans of objects, room mapping, robot brain...

Pretty clunky with the sensor on the front, but I agree it'd be cool.

For room mapping it seems like ARKit should cover a lot of use cases. The tape measure demos I've seen were solid. But IIRC ARKit has a lot of stuff built around identifying flat surfaces like that, it can't help you so much with arbitrary objects.

They demo'd Snapchat with improved face tracking, though?

This comes across as extremely petty. As someone that owns a 6S and no desire to get an X, I see why it might appeal to people. It's a huge UX shift which is enough to intrigue and excite a lot of people. Ultimately what it offers may not work, but you can't dismiss it immediately as being for "fanboys" or "rich people" (especially given there are other $1000 phones on the market).

> It's a huge UX shift which is enough to intrigue and excite a lot of people

This is why I'm debating it. Still not sure though, and may just stick with my 7+.

Your smartphone opulence can come from Lamborghini's $2450 Alpha-One instead ;)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4815538/Lambo...

Holy shit that is cringey as all hell. What an awful mentality you must have to feel the need to buy one of these.

Will reserve judgment until I use it for myself, but suspect the notch will elicit same visceral effect as the touchbar. Now primarily use an iMac, likewise suspect I'll get the 8 over the X.

I'm personally not too interested in the iPhone X, it's a first-generation product that needs time for the software to catch up with the hardware. And with the starting price for a 64GB model being just $50 over a 256GB iPhone 8+ it's really hard for me to justify a $1149 phone, as spiffy as it looks.

Honestly, I think a lot of people are going to end up deciding based on how old their current device is and how regularly they upgrade devices. If you're an annual upgrader you'll probably go with the iPhone X, if you upgrade every 2-3 years and just bought an iPhone 7 there's little reason to switch, if you have an iPhone 6s it's up to preference, if you still have an iPhone 6 then it's a very enticing device.

> After six days of daily use, this iPhone 8 shows no scratches or “micro-abrasions” whatsoever.

When did we start having such low expectations of products? (my italics)

Edit: grammar.

His point was that while it has the same feel of the last-generation jet black version, it doesn't have the same downside of it.

I understand. My point is broader. Even if he's comparing to last year's product, he promotes this as a bonus. He is happy that the product is in mint condition after 6 days. Not even a week. It's slightly sad.

Ugh, I noticed the same thing a few weeks ago reading reviews of battery life.

Apparently "good" battery life these days means "in more sedate conditions it's easily going to get you home to a charger."

When did people's expectations get so low?

You're reading too much into it. It was never presented as a "bonus", rather an honest accounting of why one material may be better than another. Both are "tacky" feeling, but only one didn't show wear and tear just one week into use.

I got a noticeable scratch on my Galaxy S6 in less than a week. And it's not even made of glass. I don't expect anything I put in my pockets to remain in "mint condition" for very long.

He couldn't test for longer, so it's not expectation of short lifetime, but stated limitation of the test.

Plus, there is a very high expectation of having a material that is pleasant to touch, easy to grip, but is extremely hard, does not shatter and does not scratch even on a micro level.

He was directly contrasting it to what he'd noticed in the last iteration of phones: that they'd had such abrasions after only two days. Thus, while he couldn't definitively assert the new back was better, it is a positive sign that it does not so far exhibit the same defect the previous phone had.

He is not stating that 6 days without abrasions is, objectively, a grand achievement.

Is reading for comprehension such a high bar to aim for?

Hey look, another glowing review from Apple's favorite cheerleader.

I think Gruber's pieces about Apple are mostly useless, because he always seems heavily biased. Compare that to e.g. the ATP podcast, which is hosted by Apple fans but seems to contain more criticism and less apologism.

Yup I relate a lot more to ATP than The Talk Show because of the amazing mental gymnastics Gruber goes through to justify all kinds of things that are objectively issues I have with my Apple gear.

It's no surprise that Apple executives give him all kinds of exclusives.

John Siracusa and Marco Arment are great at getting to the parts where Apple can improve. My only fault with them is their idea of Windows seems stuck in the days of XP.

Casey Liss, however, is just a cheerleader who would rather self-flagellate about his unworthiness to see Apple's blinding genius.

Since you brought him up, Liss gets on my nerves because not only does he insist that something works fine for him, but he goes on extended rants about how everything is fine and he can't see what Arment/Siracusa are talking about. Like, he spends a lot of time claiming everything is fine but in an argumentative way. It's boring and frustrating.

Marco's problematic/annoying in his own way, but Casey is aggressively... status quo???

But the fact that they have 3 distinct personalities also makes the show interesting, rather than many other podcasts where people just agree with each other (like the aforementioned Talk Show)

Do you actually think there's anything bad to write about with these?

He's been critical of the camera bump and the notch. The main thing he's fighting against is this review is that the 8 is _not_ an upgrade over the 7. I think it is, but YMMV.

What's remarkable is how muted it is. If Apple decided to publish date of birth, Social Security number, mother's maiden name & complete chat history for all iOS users Gruber would write a blog detailing how this would be a welcome radical move to total transparency which will encourage the U.S. financial system to switch to more secure authentication options &c. &c. &c.

The fact that his review is not 'this is the best, greatest, most wonderful thing that has ever happened in the entire history of mankind; Apple is mother, Apple is father; hail Jobs!' indicates how very unimpressing the newest iPhones are.

Or maybe it indicates that your caricature isn't rooted in fact?

I don't understand his rant about "wireless" charging. He wrote a whole article about it with two dictionary definitions that completely contradict his own point, too.

Wireless means there's no wire and you don't need to plug your phone to charge it. So it's wireless charging.

I think the objection is because there's still a wire between the wall and the pad, and your phone still has to be on the pad. That is, your phone still has to be physically connected, through a wire, to an electrical outlet.

Maybe "plugless" is a term that more accurately describes the benefit. IMO, it's a very nice benefit so I don't mean to minimize it.

We suppose that eventually there will be some kind of charging where you don't even have to set your device on a pad -- I guess it will charge if you just get it into a charging area or room. Then we might want to call that wireless but the term will be taken. I don't think that's really an issue though. That's a marketing issue we can let the marketing people solve if/when we get there. I'd probably try to call it "True Wireless" or "Long Wireless" but that's probably a sign of why I'm not a marketing person.

It's wireless to a pedant. The interface isn't a wire going physically into the phone, but the phone has to be physically connected to the pad. In some ways it's even less convenient than wired charging. Try reading and charging in bed.

The term "wireless" clearly invokes imagery of a kind of ambient charging. Marketeers know this, and the term is used in bad faith.

The rant is about how to charge the iPhone or any device with "wireless" charging is that you still need the wire to be touching the phone or device.

There is still a wire involved and they're calling it "wireless".

It's a petty semantic argument. You don't need to plug it into your phone, which is the annoying part. You just plug the pad in and leave it plugged in forever. You require much less accuracy to charge your phone now. It will be a boon to people who suffer from tremors or have weak hands.

To me, the most annoying part is having to part from the device. Truly wireless charging in my pocket, without thinking about it, would be amazing and will eventually happen (though far away).

One advantage of the iPhone 8+ over the iPhone X is that the display is wider, and that makes it easier to read larger accessibility fonts. My parents are keeping the plus size because of that.

That's something I noticed too. I don't like the new aspect ratio of the X, but I want rid of the home button so much I'll deal with it.

One advantage of the iPhone 8 over the iPhone X is that it's not a monstrous size. Even though the iPhone X is only slightly larger than the iPhone 7, the screen is still ridiculously larger, particularly since they got rid of the feature where it'll shrink the screen.

I don't know why the market has decided that two hand smartphone usage is king, but it makes me sad. As someone who is frequently forced to use my device one handed and on the move its getting harder and harder to deal with.

I know. I wish they would update the iPhone SE (my current phone). As it is, looks like I'm not upgrading anytime soon.

I got sort of used to the size of the 7. After a year I'm still at the point where it annoys me at times but otherwise is fine. A hair smaller in height would be perfect for my needs.

I was intrigued by the X in that I was willing to go a hair higher in height for a much larger screen until I realized they got rid of the small-scaling feature I still can't think of the name of. Considering I already use that all the time on my 7 and the screen is about to get much larger, it'd be necessary for me to get by.

Having a flip phone I get a kick out of it how dorky people look using their gadgets, the same way the one button mouse made me laugh when I had an actual one. More of all that, please. As long as it's more than a piece of cloth people chew on while staring off into the distance it's still way too useful and all the important people know it.

Your comment reveals more about you than anybody else.

I'm getting the X, not cause I love throwing money around, but because I hate the wide width +'s. I'm coming off a 6+ so needless to say 3 years of no one hand texting has made me want to stab my own eyes out. I hate two hand texting.

Why is this the review that is making it to the front page? There are lots of sources that have, or will have, much better insights into the phone and tech that will spur much better conversation on HN; I hope one of those surfaces, too.

I think the author is a homer for sure, but his reviews are a lot more practical, more Walt Mossberg than Ars Technica. It's nice to know what's under the hood but it's also nice to know what the phone feels like in day-to-day use, and I think Mr. Gruber covers that well.

And, for anyone who's already in the ecosystem, I think he's really good at relating new products to existing ones.

Can you give an example of how Mr. Gruber covers something "day-to-day" well? Not that examples don't exist, but I have a pretty unhappy relationship with more touchy-feely metrics.

Example: battery life. A good description of how battery life is dealt with in most reviews is "awfully": battery life depends on a crazy number of details that it is really hard to properly capture "day-to-day" usage in a review. A person that rarely uses their phone vs. one that plays games all day vs. one that uses the web browser all the time vs one that uses navigation all the time vs one that snapchats all day are going to see very different battery life performance; unless the phone is atrociously bad (which has happened before, too), it's hard to be able to properly gauge battery life.

> But they did debut alongside the iPhone X, and because of that almost nobody is excited about them...

Only thing I don't agree with on this post. Because of the price tag, and the notch -- mostly -- the X hasn't impressed me much. The 8, and 8Plus, on the other hand, are closer to what I was expecting: an iPhone with upgraded hardware, and unique features (compared to the previous versions).

The pricing has changed slightly since last year. Last year’s entry model iPhone 7 cost $649. This year’s 64 GB iPhone 8 costs $699. Apple, of course, has no explanation for this.

Since the price of new iphones is obviously rising faster than inflation, it begs the question; where is the market willing to go?

Are most people okay with monthly payments on phones when they were never at that point with computers?

> Are most people okay with monthly payments on phones

They have been so far.

The explanation stated/assumed elsewhere is that the price of flash has gone up significantly in the last year and may go up further. Apple is changing the price now.

Obviously they could have just taken a hit to their margins instead, but that wouldn’t be Apple-like.

(I’m an Apple fan, but they love their margins)

Anyone who does even a little research knows flash storage prices are going up.

And anyone who pays attention to Apple knows that they have a target margin on their hardware (non-cable, non-accessory), and it's immovable. They will not budge on it.

It's frustrating. I have no doubt current RAM prices also contribute to the MBP's overpriced feeling, and it's also why 32GB is seemingly unimportant to Apple at the moment.

There’s some interesting pricing games being played by Apple. For all new models, The 256GB price is the same, the 128GB and 32GB have been eliminated and in their place a single 64GB model in between ( 700 ) the price of the 32 ( 649 ) and the 64 (749 ). Personally the 128 GB was the sweet spot - 32/64 are too little and 256 is too much

>Are most people okay with monthly payments on phones when they were never at that point with computers?

Huh? Do you think people don't use minimum monthly payment financing on laptops and desktop computers?

There are people who use that option for anything that costs in the 3 digits. How is a phone any different?

To recap:

Glass + Stainless Steel > Aluminum / Plastic > Glass + Aluminum > Glass + Stainless Steel

2010 > 2017

> The lighting effects in Portrait mode, though, are interesting… There have also been a few [shots] where the edges … have confused the hell out of the iPhone’s depth sensing… original Portrait mode last year shipped in similar state… When it works, though, …

> … what exactly was “bionic” about the A11 chip … from Apple marketing-speak to plain English, is that The Bionic Man and Woman were cool, and the A11 chip is very cool.

Brand new iPhone 8 “high-speed charging” vs year-old iPhone 7 charging:

> 30 minutes it was at 54 percent, and at 45 minutes it was at 72 percent

> 30 minutes it was at 43 percent, and at 45 minutes it was at 65 percent

True Tone, mostly software and probably $10 of hardware, is the only noticeable display improvement.

> Last year’s entry model iPhone 7 cost $649. This year’s 64 GB iPhone 8 costs $699. Apple, of course, has no explanation for this.

  > I like this change from three sizes to just two.

Oh, come on...

The thing that struck me watching the keynote was the positioning of the iPhone 8 and the iPhone X.

I think Apple knows the majority of people will buy the iPhone 8 Plus, and the X is targeted at two niches: pro Instagrammers, and kids who always get the flagship and use Snapchat. For social media pros, max selfie is a revenue stream, and the X will get them more views.

The X is the modern Mac Pro, since the modern content creator is living in Instagram.

I have a 6, and would like an 8 Plus. The difference between the camera on the 6 and the 7 in indoor lighting is noticeable to me, and I use my phone mostly as a camera these days.

I’ll be getting an X because I think it’s neat, I’ve got a 7 now. I agree with reviews I’ve seen elsewhere. If you have a 6 or 6S it will be a huge jump in performance and camera quality, totally worth it. If you have a 7 it’s a nice upgrade (especially for TrueTone) but you could easily go without.

The 7 was a massive jump over my 6. The 8 is a huge jump (in performance) over the 7.

Coming from a 6? You’ll love it.

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