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Comment by Androider | Hacker News Reader

Neat, wireless charging, exactly like I had on my Nexus 5, around 5 years ago :) The best thing about the iPhone 8 is that it might finally make wireless chargers more commonplace, they are extremely convenient as Android users have been trying to tell for years.

Here's another one trick Apple might want to pick up on: I own both an iPhone 7 and a Nexus 6P, and the fingerprint sensor being in the middle of the back on 6P is unquestionably a better choice (Samsung messes up the placement). You can pick up the phone, unlock, and pull down the notification shade in one single natural motion. Maybe a few years from now...

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I thought the fingerprint scanner on the back would be a good feature until I realized 90% of my phone usage involves me pulling it out of my pocket.

- On my iPhone, I just pinch it with my thumb on the home button while I pull it out.

- On my Pixel, I have to take it out and then unlock it.

Also, when the phone is resting on a table, I can just unlock my iPhone by touching the home button. With the Pixel, I have to turn it over first. When all I wanted to do was read a message I just received, possibly with dirty hands.

So putting the unlock on the back of the phone doesn't seem very well thought out at all.

That all depends on _where_ on the back of the phone. With my Nexus 6P, the fingerprint sensor is located right where my index finger naturally goes while holding the phone.

With a correctly located rear fingerprint sensor, it becomes an automatic motion without thinking rather than having to consciously find and press a button.

Except for the 'no hands while locked on the table' part.

It's an oh so common use case.

It's OK Apple just obsoleted that use case by requiring your face to be in the camera's recognition zone. No more unlocking it while it's on a table!

>On my Pixel, I have to take it out and then unlock it.

This isn't my experience at all. By the time it's out of my pocket, my index finger is right on the scanner and the phone is unlocked.

Might be a function of the size of the pocket or of the hand, though.

I have a pixel (and previously a Nexus 5x) and I easily and naturally unlock using the fingerprint sensor on the back as I remove the device from my pocket. The sensor is located within very close proximity to where my index finger naturally falls where doing so.

Which is to say, although the rear position may not work well for you personally, this may be a question of user preference with no generally superior solution.

> Neat, wireless charging, exactly like I had on my Nexus 5, around 5 years ago :)

And I think we can all be grateful Apple decided to go with the Qi standard here rather than roll their own! What a mess that would have been...

Remains to be seen if this Airpower thing will be that.

That's true, but that sounds more like an additional layer to communicate charging info, negotiate which devices should get more power, etc.

I do half-suspect Apple probably tried coming up with a better solution (e.g. one not involving a charging mat), but ran into technical (probably laws-of-physics) challenges and went with Qi instead, because otherwise there's really no reason they couldn't have done this earlier. Or perhaps they just needed the time to re-tool for a glass case, who knows.

The answer to why it took so long may not be any more complicated than "Apple charging cables are notoriously short-lived and surprisingly expensive."

Airpower is exactly that and they said it during the keynote. They promised to work to make some of it a part of the standard eventually. You know how that goes...

Why did they not name it Apple Juice instead of Airpower? :) If you're referring to the FaceTime announcement, it was a third party that forced them to keep it closed (from memory).

FaceTime was also going to become an open standard which everyone could use... Here’s hoping though.

Actually, the device specs say both the iPhone 8 and iPhone X use Qi wireless charging.

Wait, they're just using Qi without any extra fluff? Did they at least up the power transfer rates so I don't have to wait forever in comparison to wired charging?

Precisely the reason I never use my Qi charger: It's too slow.

FWIW, iPhone batteries are generally smaller than other phone's, so it should take less (they consume less generally, which is how they stay on-par with other phones).

Yes they are, but they have an extra protocol for their mat that supports multiple charges. They say they're trying to roll it back into Qi

> Neat, wireless charging, exactly like I had on my Nexus 5, around 5 years ago :)

Wow and Google got rid of it probably because the iphone didn't have it. I wish the hardware team at google would stop trying to copy apple and just do the things that make sense. Wireless charging and a headphone jack makes sense.

It wasn't necessarily only because "the iPhone didn't have it". They chose to make the Nexus 6P and Pixel out of aluminum, and likely got rid of it because they valued that material choice over a glass or plastic back.

> and likely got rid of it because they valued that material choice over a glass or plastic back.

once again, probably because apple did it.

Exactly this. I know someone who worked on the Android team around the time the 5x/6p was released. This person, though working for Android, still admired the iPhone greatly. I could see how this mindset transferred to the entire team.

Wireless charging will only work if it's everywhere. This new iPhone (and all future models) will make sure it catches on.

McDonalds and Starbucks _will_ have Qi charging tables by the end of next year.

Many locations of both already have this and have for quite some time. But you're right; maybe this will speed up their deployment of wireless charging.

It was really cool to be able to go into a Starbucks and, while waiting for a drink, drop my Android on the table in front of me and let it charge. Now we just need to get laptops on board with this.

>Many locations of both

In NYC and San Francisco, sure. Technology rolls out to the flyover states a little slower, though. Apple helps accelerate it a bit more.

I'm willing to bet if I asked about Qi charging in the McDonalds in Brodhead Wisconsin, they would not have it. A year from now, though, is a far better chance.

Starbucks has Qi integrated tables all over the place in NYC today.

Are you sure those are Qi? The ones in Silicon Valley locations are PMA. https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/starbucks-wireless-c...

They worked with my Galaxy S6 so pretty sure it's Qi

All the new McDonalds in the UK have Qi charging tables.

Starbucks has had wireless chargers for a long time in most Bay Area stores. However, these are usually PMA chargers -- not Qi.

I have never been able to charge my Nexus devices which only have Qi at Starbucks, however my new Galaxy S8 which supports both Qi and PMA work at Starbucks just fine!

This does unfortunately mean that new iPhone won't work at Starbucks locations unless they replace the hardware.

In the past 6 months, I've seen all of that hardware disappear. Can't find a Starbucks offering the power mats in the tables anymore (and the circle dongles you would have to plug in).

The Starbucks in the Hillsdale Mall has power mats in the table.

> the fingerprint sensor being in the middle of the back on 6P is unquestionably a better choice

I've been very happy with the fingerprint reader positioning on the Sony Xperia Z5 Compact: as a part of the power button, along the edge of the device.

It's exactly where my right thumb naturally rests when holding my phone. (And lines up nicely with my left middle finger rests, if I'm holding it in my left hand.)

Side view: https://www.androidcentral.com/sites/androidcentral.com/file...

Wireless charging was slow and inefficient. Is this newer tech better?

I like that the charging bay is long so you can charge multiple devices. That's cool.

The charging bay isn't a thing yet, they plan to make this in 2018, but it seems they need to create a standard for that.

I didn't really understand from the video what this new standard covers that Qi doesn't. Is Qi lacking the feature to charge multiple devices at once and why? Does Qi maybe only have some single-link communication channel between charger and charged-device? I don't know anything about Qi, so any insights are welcome.

Nope, this is the same Qi standard that's been used in almost every wirelessly-chargable device.

There's some competing standards like AirFuel (nee A4WP), which might be better. Doesn't matter if nobody uses them.

It's slower than a wire, but it doesn't matter in practice. You put the phone down on your nightstand or desk as you would have done anyway, and it charges. There's nothing to think about.

It's like an electric car. Yes, it's slow to charge. But in practice it's always charged when you're ready to leave in the morning, so in daily use it's more convenient than spending 5 minutes at a fuel pump during your trip.

I'm just glad at least Tesla doesn't seem to do planned obsolescence with batteries, the way smartphone OEMs do with their battery irreplaceable smartphones that seem to last 2 years before the battery degrades significantly. Tesla's seem to lose about 5% after 10 years

That's because Tesla has the room to properly cool the battery. Phones use batteries as heat sinks for their processors, and heat kills lithium batteries.

This is a reason not to use a thick case, and avoid charging your phone over 80% during the day.

Problem with a charging bay is, you usually cannot use your phone will charging (compared to wired). It's only useful for overnight charging or long term downtimes.

> It's only useful for overnight charging or long term downtimes.

Not really - My phone sits on my desk next to me throughout the day. If it were charging every time I put it down, even 5-10 minutes at a shot, that would basically add up to a fully charged phone by the time I left my desk.

Right now I have to plug it in to do that, and I only do that if I know I'm going to be there a while - otherwise it's a hassle. With a mat, it's the same effort to put it down as it is without the mat.

It does matter. Modern smartphones have such abysmally short battery life that I have to charge my Samsung S6 twice during the day, in addition to the overnight charge. Which makes a slow Qi charger useless during the day.

Depends on the modern smartphone, I have a Xiaomi Redmi Note 4 and it has amazingly good battery life (much better than my company-supplied Samsung Galaxy S8), I can sometimes go two days without charging.

They do cheat with ridiculous background app-killing "features" though (I've tweaked it to my liking and now prefer it)

Battery life seems to be almost entirely down to how much you're actually using it. My work Samsung Galaxy A5 (2017) lasts several days (really) because I only look do email and calendar stuff on it, a few times a day.

My iPhone 6s often lasts through the day and half way through the next, when I'm not doing much other than playing Spotify and using a bit of WhatsApp. If I'm actively using it, though, I have to plug it in towards the end of the day.

when i'm in the office, i leave my phone on the bay to charge. i don't literally use my phone while charging, but i do pick it up from time to time to check notifications and then put it back on the bay. so it pretty much charges all day. it probably won't save me more than a second or two every time i pick it up and put it back down, but it's become so second nature to simply drop it on the table without looking that i can't imagine going back to a system where i have to use both hands (and more than an eye) to get a phone charging.

when i'm out, and if i know i will be out for a long time, i'll bring a battery along.

at night, it charges on the bay when i'm asleep.

I think wireless charging slowness can be seen as a feature, not a bug.

Some EE major can correct me, but I think the slower you charge a battery, the better it is for its overall life. (So even for non wireless charging, if possible, it's better to use a 1 amp charger overnight than a 2 amp)

I had a Lumia phone that I charged wirelessly from 2012 to 2017, on its last day, the battery life was around 80% as good as its first day, much better than my friends' phones.

The only use case for me would be to put my phone at night when its battery was less than 20%.

Another thing I read about batteries is that it's better to charge them once a day[1] (so before nighttime) rather than many times during the day. Some people here comment that you always put your phone on the charging plate, I'm not sure this would be good for battery life.

Finally the best 'feature' I noticed is that it's really inconvenient to use your phone while it's charging on its plate, so you're less tempted to use it when going to sleep.

[1] http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/06/battery-charge-l...

My problem with wireless charging is that it gets my Nexus 4 crazy hot because of the induction. But that may be my cheapo charger, I dont know.

That was my problem as well. The other problem that I had (which turned out to be a deal breaker) was that in order for the phone to charge, you had to place it just right on the charging pad. Otherwise it would show that it was charging (you'd see the lightning bolt on the battery icon), but the phone wouldn't actually charge. In practice, this meant that wireless charging was actually considerably less convenient than plugging a USB cable into the phone, since you had to check back on the phone after a few minutes to verify that the phone was actually charging.

Some pad solve this problem by having multiple coils inside of them. I don't think it solves the heat problem though.

I had the same problem with my Nexus 4 and a nokia qi charger. The battery life got significantly worse in the months after I started using it. I have no way of knowing if that was the cause, but it seemed likely at the time.

I never charged my Nexus 4 wirelessly, but the battery life collapsed somewhere into its second year. They were beautiful phones, but the batteries on them degraded abysmally.

Heat is known to degrade battery life/capacity. That's why middle range product (like those with a SD625) are better for battery life not only because they sip power, but because they don't heat up as much and you'll get a bettery life after one or two years compared to a more powerful SoC.

> the fingerprint sensor being in the middle of the back on 6P is unquestionably a better choice

This is arguably not too relevant any more -- the current Apple flagship phone replaced TouchID with FaceID, and that's probably the direction they're headed in for future phones too.

The Nexus 5 was released less than 4 years ago.

The wireless charging is a gimmick. If you have a new iPhone, a new Apple Watch, and AirPods with apparently the proper case, then it could be compelling. I prefer to just have fewer things that need charging.

As you point out, it could have been done earlier but I'm guessing they waited because the utility is so small. Whereas Android manufacturers seem to want the most features, the most checks on the list, even if they don't necessarily work too well.

I haven't used wireless charging and am neutral about it. Why do you think it's a gimmick?

Generally you can mentally sub out "gimmick" for "feature I don't use or understand" in any discussion. It's equally as meaningful and conveys the same information.

I've owned one phone with wireless charging and I have no particular need for another one. It'll be handy if it becomes ubiquitous - put the phone on a pad at the coffee shop is more convenient than carrying a cable to plug in to a USB outlet - but a relatively minor thing for me.

I'm often not at my desk at work, so when I am, I want wired so it charges as fast as possible. Additionally, both for during the day and at night, charging with a wire has the big convenience advantage of being able to use the phone while charging it.

Wireless charging is not a gimmick. It's a category below Tivo for me in "things I never knew I needed but get really annoyed when without now".

I'm on a Pixel XL now, and I greatly miss the convenience of simply having a couple charging pads laying out throughout the house/office. It feels like a chore to remember to plug in the phone every night. I won't buy another phone w/o Qi charging support.

This probably annoys me more than anything about smartphones. New model of somesuch comes out, and it has a bunch of newer features, but a lot of features I've come to expect are suddenly gone.

It was never that way with PCs. A lot of things about phones are unfortunately not like it was with PCs. I'm amazed to say it, but I've come to view IBM and Microsoft as fantastic drivers of open technology during the PC area.

Well, it IS that way with PC's too, it's just been a bit slower. Try finding a modern motherboard with an AGP slot or a real parrallel port.

Try finding one with a serial port. And that technology is still in active use in IT networking and embedded devices.

Try finding one with a serial port

I just did. Found three or four modern motherboards with serial ports with much effort.

Sorry for some reason I read "laptop". It's much harder to find a modern laptop with a serial port, and a desktop is not very easy to carry into a datacenter.

AGP might be tricky, but buying a pci express parallel port card is trivial.

Why do you need AGP? I'm very curious to know if it still has a use case.

You don't own a MacBook do you?

I'm ready for wireless charging. My current phone (Android) get's a USB socket full of pocket lint every couple of weeks. Once that happens the cable won't go in properly and I have to spend a couple of minutes with a sharp stick and pick fuzz out of my phone. Wireless charging would solve this problem neatly, and since I already have a standard place for my phone I wouldn't even have to change my habits. :)

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