Hacker News Reader

Comment by privaroonie | Hacker News Reader

Yeah, I would think so. So far, we've learned that they've exposed virtually everyone's data through their incompetence (thus exposing nearly every adult in the US to a high risk of identity fraud), sold stock to avoid personal financial losses before the news broke, and set up a scam site to trick people into giving up their right to sue.

If this isn't criminal, then nothing is. If someone doesn't go to jail over this, why the hell shouldn't I just go out and commit fraud on a daily basis myself? It seems to be rewarded in our society...

View on HN

>> why the hell shouldn't I just go out and commit fraud on a daily basis myself?

Because corporations are protected, individuals are not. This is what happens when business(profit) takes precedence over human rights.

There will be no repercussions for those responsible. No changes will be implemented. At best we'll get a public apology, but even that seems far-fetched.

Should a sound approach, then, not be, to incorporate one-self at birth?

What if A Person were to be born into a corporation and all transactions made by thhem be the corporations actions - if things go south, dissolve the company.

(clearly this is simplistic, but you get the idea)

I want to re-form myself into one of these corporations which has little retribution for actions. I shall pledge 10% of SamStave INC LLC to any attorney on the ~~~prowl~~~ case...

This is extremely difficult for a single person to do without piercing the veil.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil

Indeed, this seems only logical. I honestly have this thought every time I make a large financial decision: Renting a house? Would be much easier to break the lease (Should I ever need to) if my surrogate 'corporation' with few assets were the leasee. Ditto with many medical situations/other large expenses. Plus, much better tax deductions!

> Would be much easier to break the lease (Should I ever need to) if my surrogate 'corporation' with few assets were the leasee

You'll risk losing the assets. If the assets aren't substantial, it's unlikely any landlord will sign the lease with the entity without someone guaranteeing it.

Well, this is why most people (including myself) put rental property under an LLC. I wouldn't let a tenant sign the lease as a corporation unless they were a legit corporation - you know, companies rent houses all the time for executives that relocate, etc. If the tenant breaks the lease, I'd sue the company and their assets.

Real world example: I did a summer internship one year and the company rented a few houses for the interns. Myself and 2 college guys were in one. Landlord claimed damage on the air conditioner because it iced over due to not changing the filter...ended up getting money from the company.

a one person corporation isn't going to work. you'll need multiple people to serve as officers.

that said, the strategy you describe is perhaps workable as a small, close-knit group of reciprocally trustworthy people who leave a sequence of bankrupt corporations in their wake.

it could be a sort of financial lobster: a ring-of-trust which occasionally sheds its corporate shell and then immediately grows a new one.

Consider "service" companies and asset sales. The company name/etc can be valued pretty low and sold to another organization while leaving all the unrealized liabilities in a company without any assets to pay for lawsuits...

This seems pretty common with high value items (say pools/AC units/solar installers/etc) providing long warranties. 5 years in, the warranty is worthless because the original company is gone.

I am still unsure as to how any of the credit bureaus exist legally at all, I never consented to having all my eggs in those three vulnerable baskets. Why is this my problem all of a sudden?

I get that consumer protections in the US are not very strong, but this just seems like a shady cartel in cahoots with the banks/insurance companies. Please tell me I'm grossly misunderstanding something here.

It's a historical fluke. Credit bureaus trace back to agencies that compiled third-party reports on the creditworthiness of business persons. So long as the information collected is accurate (and not defamatory), this type of activity is protected under the first amendment.

See the first segment of this episode of the Backstory podcast for a retelling of how these early agencies worked: http://backstoryradio.org/shows/keeping-tabs-2016/

But then what happens if that information becomes inaccurate? (if your credit report shows credit events that aren't yours as a result of a fraud). Doesn't it become a form of defamation?

John oliver made a segment about this on how a person was denied a rental contract because one of these agencies said he was a terrorist.

Like really, equifax saying "his score is pretty good, but he IS a terrorist". Sometimes correcting those things take months.

It's ridiculous, but no property management company wants to risk a fine when the cost of checking the OFAC SDN list is so small. I'm not sure if we ever saw a decline due to the OFAC list, so I could easily see it would take a long time for something that unusual to be straightened out.

> I never consented to having all my eggs in those three vulnerable baskets

Your information does not just magically make it into the database of a credit bureau. It gets there via public record or because you allowed a creditor to report it to them. You are more than welcome to find a creditor that does not ask for or report to credit bureaus.

Not trying to justify the existence of credit bureaus but let's not kid ourselves. They aren't sending spies to your house or tapping your phone lines to get this info. You personally authorize a large amount of it.

Crass incompetence at securing IT systems is not a criminal offense, no one is going to go to jail for that. But insider dealing is a criminal offense with a potentially heavy jail penalty.

>why the hell shouldn't I just go out and commit fraud on a daily basis myself?

Because you don't have enough wealth to be immune to the legal system.

Yeah, if this didn't light a fire under some butts, nothing will. Remains to be seen whether it is just lip service, though. Our government doesn't like to prosecute people in the financial sector anymore.

I hope their executives get criminal charges. Credit Reporting Agency has a huge responsibility to keep this data safe. Lets charge with their CISO...you know, the one that graduated with a degree in music composition and just recently took down her LinkedIn profile.

https://www.boardroominsiders.com/executive-profiles/1006308...

It is presented like a scam site, but without compelling users to agree to terms and conditions the site doesn't pass the basic contract law requirement of establishing a clear, unambiguous pathway to assent by a consumer to the terms.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com