Ask HN: How do you use 3D printers? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: How do you use 3D printers?

10 pointsrebootthesystem6 comments

I am primarily interested in FDM (building in layers by melting filament).

A recent report says most use in US and Europe is in professional product development.

The image portrayed in every KS campaign of kids 3D printing at home, making their own toys and Mom helping does not ring true. I can see them being used in schools under instruction but imagine them collecting dust at home.

3D printers range in cost from $100 to $5,000 and beyond. Where is the point beyond which cost does not equate to value or benefits? It seems to me that the limitations of FDM are imposed by the materials and rate of deposition issues far more than the mechanics of the printer. In other words, once you get past cheap and flimsy construction the incremental gains per dollar spent are minimal if not non-existent. Is this true? Is a $5,000 printer 10x better than a $500 printer and 50x better than a $100 printer.

Put a different way, if you want to do your won small scale production, you could buy 50 printers for $100 each or five for $1,000 each. Ignoring logistics, are the printed results 10x better or better enough to justify going 10x slower with five printers?

I see 3D printing services out there but can't understand who might be using them when you can buy printers for relatively little money. Unless you are printing hundreds of something or dozens of a part that takes hours to print, what's the use case? Are any of these companies making money or are they chasing a loosing proposition in hopes that it will turn profitable in the future?

Context: I am looking to invest in the sector. I know it has a ton of potential. I am trying to separate reality from fantasy.

We use 3D printers in my manufacturing business. However, we have a full machine shop so 3D printing is used for "look and feel" much more so than anything else. We literally don't care about print quality at all. We are using an older Makerbot. That's the extent of my experience in the domain.

>I see 3D printing services out there but can't understand who might be using them when you can buy printers for relatively little money.

My impression is that 3D printing is a hassle; between cleaning nozzles, babysitting things, polishing/sanding things post-print (removing supports, etc) and all the other work required.

I love that 3D printing is available, and I love that thingiverse and similar sites let you share models, but in the past year I've only wanted to have ~4 small enclosures printed for hardware projects. At that volume paying somebody else to print something for me is a much more effective use of money than buying a printer and managing it.

I wrote about this, briefly, here:

https://blog.steve.fi/3d_printing_is_cool.html

In short - 3d printing is cool, but its still not a "hit print and wait" process. Until it is I'd rather outsource the actual printing to people with more patience than I possess!

Yes, the hassle element is definitely there. The printers that simplify or eliminate some of these issues are not cheap at all.

I think there's a huge distinction between the occasional consumer-level user of this technology and professional users.

The first market isn't much different from the drone market. Lot's of cheap crap printers that end-up on shelves after 30 days or less. The second market is one that can support continuing growth and innovation. And the one that has a real need and real problems to be solved.

I work in Additive Manufacturing and 3D Printing.

The printers we use are not in the price range you stated. Those that money can buy cost several tens to few hundred thousand USD range.

We have many printers. Some have been around 15-20 years and others were manufactured less than a year ago that run much faster. We several different additive and 3D technologies with many materials, configurations, methods of part analysis, methods of build file preparation, methods of building, and methods of processing and finishing parts.

Our older machines still run beyond specifications provided by their manufacturers. Experienced people maintain them and keep them in an near-ideal environment. In every part of the process, experience with the machines and process is essential to producing quality parts. Most companies fail when they think that they can just "print parts" on their own. It doesn't work like that, even with some of the latest promises from machine manufacturers.

If you want to invest in the sector, and you can take on the risk, that is up to you. As a short-term investment it might or might not be a great investment, depending on news that comes up here and there that get people's attention. But, most in the sector believe that 3D printing and additive manufacturing will be transitioning from a historic phase of primarily producing prototypes and small batch parts into a production phase. That's not a forward looking statement for a single company or companies; it's a reality across the sector. Customers want that, and it will be provided.

Be aware, especially as an investor, that the reality of the market is not what you see:

Imagine all of the large companies that need to make parts and iterate on part designs quickly, some of which that could neither be machined nor made by hand. That's current reality.

Then imagine large companies that want printers constantly dedicated to making parts for them over and over, being able to iterate on design without stopping to change anything out. That's possible now, but many aren't doing it yet.

Now imagine most consumers expecting everything that they buy to be tailored specifically to their needs. Those products would have properties and behavior that would seems magical compared to today's. That's where we're headed within our lifetime.

Thanks for your insight on this. Yes, I understand there are a lot of risks in 3D printing and lots of people chasing after unicorns. Yet, within certain constraints the technology is very useful. I'd say this might be particularly true of metal 3D printing, where companies like SpaceX are manufacturing complex parts that can't be made in any other way.

I have a feeling that, at scale, 3D printing will become just like CNC machining. Anyone can buy a cheap CNC machine on eBay, yet, from that to using them for non-trivial manufacturing and prototyping work it is a whole other matter.

Today you can buy 3D printers for as little as $100. I bet most of those sit around collecting dust after someone printed a rook, Darth Vader's head, the Eiffel Tower and a few models they downloaded here and there. In other words, they end-up exactly where drones do after the initial love affair.

It should come as no surprise that the majority of actual consistent usage is in professional and manufacturing applications. Be it research in prosthetic limbs, prototyping or limited run specialized parts.

I believe these sectors will continue to grow and require constant improvements in technology. My guess is this is where opportunities lie, not with the now very tired idea of kids making their own toys at home you see in nearly every single Kickstarter campaign.

Within this century, an average middle-class person may be able to afford a machine that could print things at home that they would want to wear or use. Today that person could make a crappy shoe in low-cost FDM machine and put shoelaces in it, but a pair of uncomfortable sandals is not the same as a nice pair of running shoes. To print consumer goods like that, you would need not only the automation and technology that could fit in a small spot in the home, but you would need raw materials that the machine could use, and probably there would need to be advances in chemistry, etc. Baking is different, though. Affordable 3D printing in a home kitchen should be much sooner, as that tech is already here.

So, if the immediate future is not having printers in the home to make any product, where would those be?

UPS moved boldly recently and got into 3D printing: https://www.theupsstore.com/print/3d-printing

I like what they are trying to do, but it doesn't work like that. The typical customer doesn't have the experience or resources available to design a part to be printed correctly, and then after that for the part to be finished as it should be to meet the specifications they've defined.

The immediate future is really all about the manufacturing companies that know 3D/additive and have the money and experience to blend those technologies with other manufacturing technologies in different niches. One company won't be able to produce cakes, shoes, and rocket parts anytime soon. But one company could produce satellite parts along with the parts for the printers and other factory equipment to make the cakes and shoes; another might just print the cake, another might print the shoe, but not all the parts of the shoe. That all happens today. Later, maybe a manufacturing company could print a whole satellite, a whole shoe, and print a cake and ship it without any human intervention.

A number of years ago I read a very interesting book titled "Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman Condition". Despite the title this is a forward looking book exploring ideas surrounding applications of nanotechnology. The author talks about refrigerators that can print perfectly marbleized artificial beef and, at the other extreme, downloading your brain into a robot for telepresence and space travel.

3D printing, taken to the extreme of piling molecules on top of each other, could fundamentally change the way we make things.

In today's reality I am looking for opportunities to push the envelope. This could mean everything and anything from better hardware to better services. A few interesting ideas have come forward. Trying to filter through them now.

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