Two-thirds of Americans approve of editing human DNA to treat disease
theverge.com
theverge.com
For instance:
> Scheufele also found that very religious people were less likely to support either type of gene editing (for therapy or enhancement) compared to less religious people. That could be because altering the human genome — perhaps permanently — could be seen as "playing God."
I think the "playing God" aspect might certainly factor into it, especially when you move beyond merely treating disease/disorders. But perhaps a bigger reason is the ethics around the research itself, which involves manipulating human embryos and then essentially discarding them once the research is over.
And then the survey questions themselves have some ambiguity:
> The scientific community is capable of guiding development of new technologies in a responsible way
There are several ways to interpret this. Are they talking about a morally responsible way? A scientifically responsible way? One might have full confidence that a scientist can pursue research in a scientifically sound, responsible way, but one may have far less confidence that the scientist will make choices that accord with one's morality. That may not mean violating Ethics Boards guidelines, but a more fundamental disagreement about what the Ethics Boards consider to be ethical.
Also it's possible to oppose both abortion and embryo research.
What is the downside of increasing the number of geniuses? What is the downside of saving someone from dealing with severe teenage acne? Why should some men have to worry about their genitalia being well below average in size? Why should some women never experience an orgasm?
I get the instinctual revulsion to the idea of playing God or reducing our diversity, but I try to model my ethics as if I didn't know who I was going to be in the simulation before hand. These are changes that we should be advocating for if they are possible.
Disease treatments on the other hand are likely a lot more straightforward and the net gains are also likely larger.
There will always be the risk of the unknown, there is still the risk of the unknown with seemingly every day things like cars. The utility of cars and gene therapies is so large that we really can't afford for all the data to come in.
Protein folding as a tiny example is something we have trouble simulating, expanding to multi cellular mechanisms across a lifetime is basically impossible without directly testing it. And those tests will be done on people. Prions are just an example of the kind of issues people will be dealing with. It’s really not just about inserting some code from somewhere else it’s a question of how physical structures interact and degrade.
Long term I have no problem with it. But, right now we could give children blue hair for example but we have no idea what else that might cause.
PS: That said, copying things from other humans is probably significantly safer and this editing will take place. I just don't think we should introduce it at the society level without at least a lifetime of test data and significant sample sizes.
Well, I guess Jude Law's character couldn't live with the idea of being completely engineered for winning, and still losing. But his problem seems orthogonal to widespread genetic engineering. Everyone has their ambitions thwarted at some point. It has always been a problem humans faced. Hell, maybe even that can be engineered away, by being created with low propensity for self-loathing.
You can't get germline gene therapy if you're not a zygote.
There is not property of physics that stop us from making the tech. It won't e in the first gen tech, but with all those 20 something geniuses coming out of college they can start working on that tech before too many generations pass.
I don't understand peole who are fearful of the elimination of genetic diseases that cause. The majority of articles I read on this subject are littered with lines such as these:
"Deciding what sorts of lives are worth living brings us disturbingly close to the bygone era of eugenics, when only the “right” sorts of people were supposed to procreate."
It's not crazy to think that parents do not want to have to spend extra resources on education and basically support their child not only until their death, but having to arrange for their offspring's care after they perish.
I would like to see these people who think along these lines adopt Down's Syndrome children if they think it is so important. Perhaps if prospective parents know that there is someone willing to take care of their disabled children, more of them may go through with the pregnancy.
Also, if diseases like these end up offering some sort of survival advantage in a future scenario, we still have the genetic data to recreate the condition. it's not like Down's Syndrome or other genetic diseases are going to completely disappear. Also, there will doubtlessly be groups of people who for religious reasons or otherwise will elect not to get treatment
Does anyone regret the virtual elimination of polio or smallpox?
It's like when modern parents refuse to vaccinate their children - if that kid gets Polio and is crippled for life, that doesn't mean we should abandon vaccinations because we're creating "an unvaccinated underclass". It just means that kid's parents were stupid and ruined their son's life.
>Well, I guess Jude Law's character couldn't live with the idea of being completely engineered for winning, and still losing.
Jude Law's character illustrates one of the flaws the movie has: It was made in the '90s, when our understanding of the power and scope of the influence of genetics was quite primitive. A genetically enhanced person would probably not only be a beautiful genius, but also highly resistant to depression, anxiety, mental illness and even low self-esteem.
The scene where they read out Vincent's future life sure makes it sound like the story considers mental health:
What concerns me is how genes affect personality. I don't want a world of geniuses if a side-effect is they're all nasty people. Now I like to think that smarter people are also nicer, on the whole. And violence is often associated with frontal-lobe defects. I would like to live in a happier more secure world, and if that means engineering people to be nicer, less murderous people then so be it. But that's Clockwork Orange territory.
I think the bigger concern is how we select for intelligence. Doing it based on a few genes that correlate strongly with intelligence can lead to an increased vulnerability to health issues related to those genes we don't know about, but I think this applies to any gene level selection based on any characteristics.
http://www.ehbonline.org/article/S1090-5138%2814%2900077-4/a...
>Convicted criminal offenders had more children than individuals never convicted of a criminal offense. Criminal offenders also had more reproductive partners, were less often married, more likely to get remarried if ever married, and had more often contracted a sexually transmitted disease than non-offenders. Importantly, the increased reproductive success of criminals was explained by a fertility increase from having children with several different partners.
An ultra-smart ultra-selfish hacker would sit down, do the math, and spend 5 years killing it on Wall-street doing quasi-legal machine trading in total safety. Rather than risk imprisonment and permanently damaging his career prospects over a few thousand dollars from Grandma's credit card.
Case in point:
Carl Gugasian, graduated with a degree in electrical engineering. Got a masters in systems analysis, and was a PhD student in statistics. His intelligent, methodical approach to robbing banks let him get away with it for 30 years. He earned about 2 million dollars doing it, which is about a million less than his undergraduate engineering degree alone would have earned him during that same period if he'd just gotten a regular job.
He also eventually got caught, through pure dumb chance he couldn't have planned for, and spent 20 years in prison. So not only did he make less money being a criminal, he got to go to federal pound me in the ass prison for his golden years.
On one hand, society will be far better off with having smarter people (imagine what society would be like where everyone had an IQ of 120 - I’d be very curious). On the other hand, you’ll probably get a Gattaca-like situation. Interesting times...
I really hate how every thread there's someone that jumps from "treating genetic disease" which is both small scale (in many cases just the expression of a single gene) and tangible (ready definitions and lack of trade offs in "not having cystic fibrosis" as opposed to "maybe smarter"). We're so close to saving real lives it's a waste of time to bring up a terrible dystopia movie(the reason gattaca's protagonist can't got to space is he's got a heart condition that's likely to kill him; not because he's lacking the hand-wavy "genetic ubermench" qualities) to construct an artificial ethical dilemma.
I think the other poster's point was more that there isn't a simple genetic switch that adds 5 IQ points. There appear to be many complex factors that are part of intelligence and currently we are not sure how to untangle that mess to get simple thing we can do to make people smarter.
Considering that approximately half of measured intelligence variation isn't concluded to be genetic [0] it's my opinion you get a lot more bang for your buck focusing on social and environmental factors if you want to increase a populous's overall intellectual acumen.
http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/05/04/myers-race-car-versus-t...
>People with high IQ tend to live longer. For example, a person with IQ 115 (85th percentile) is 20% more likely to survive to age 76 than an average person with IQ 100. [...] People with high IQ tend to be taller. This is interesting since height is often used as a measure of health and fitness during childhood, and since taller people get a bunch of advantages including being rated as more attractive and earning higher income. [...] People with high IQ may be more attractive. This is the conclusion of a meta-analysis that finds a positive correlation between intelligence and body symmetry, usually used as a proxy for attractiveness unaffected by things like hairstyle and cosmetics [...] People with high IQ commit much less crime [...] People with high IQ tend to be more physically fit. [...] People with high IQ have lower rates of heart disease, stroke, circulatory diseases, and diabetes.
Doesn't look like there's much in the way of a tradeoff between high IQ and biological fitness.
Secondly that's not the point. If we need to edit multiple genes, genes that are also tied to other traits, that's what's driving the chance of side effect, not the increased intelligence.
These are more powerful than the usual designs. For example, the correlation of intelligence with longevity survives a within-family sibling study which controls away all effects of family SES and shared environment https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/doi/10.1093/ije/dyx168/... You can also verify this using twin comparisons eg http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2015/07/24/ije.d... .
More importantly, because so much of the underlying genetics of intelligence has been found and are covered by the GWAS's polygenic scores, it is possible to compare with the genetics for scores or hundreds of other diseases and measures of health: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_correlation#Intelligen... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_correlation#Education The correlation is invariably negative: higher genetic potential for intelligence predicts lower disease and better health.
> If we need to edit multiple genes, genes that are also tied to other traits, that's what's driving the chance of side effect, not the increased intelligence.
Whether it is horizontal or vertical pleiotropy is irrelevant; it is irrelevant whether a particular SNP decreases risk of heart disease by increasing one's level of education so one knows to exercise regularly, or if it instead avoids a bad mutation which makes mitochondria slightly more inefficient thereby damaging the brain & heart. You want that SNP regardless of which causal pathway it is. If intelligence polygenic scores predict lower risk for disease and better health, then doing embryo selection or editing based on that will in fact do what it's supposed to.
Are you kidding? It's probably one of the most controversial statements you can make in the general population.
We are beginning to identify genes that determine IQ. It's only a matter of time until we get a useful predictive model of genetics of intelligence.
This will play out over the next decade or two.
Look at, e.g. gene therapy for inherited disorders (lysosomal storage diseases, DNA repair deficiencies, etc, etc) versus myostatin / follistatin gene therapy that increases muscle mass, reduces fat tissue, and generally adjusts metabolism into a better direction.
The first companies to commercialize the former will be successful mid-sized biotech concerns. The first companies to commercialize the latter will be behemoths.
The state of development in this field is dependent on methods of delivering genes that are reliable, tissue specific, and achieve high degrees of cell coverage. Once that happens, which seems fairly close at hand, then we'll see a very interesting expansion of the medical tourism marketplace into enhancement technologies, a market hundreds of times as large as therapies for sick people.
Very few people are going to say that those people with cancer should die because we shouldn't do something to save them.
At first people may want to treat physical expressions of health, then mental psychological and then cosmetic.
At some point people will think about the genetics of gender (in multiple dimensions, not just sex at birth but gender) and race and all the questions and opinions that will bring.
And of course the desired traits like strength, beauty, height, intelligence.
Of course there is nothing inherently wrong about doing experiments on humans but the problem is you now need to justify that gene editing is good and eugenics is bad, that the test subjects do not need basic human rights and therefore can be disposed when convenient.
Also, its not clear to me how many therapeutic paths this opens up versus simply screening preimplantation embryos.
In Net Present Value accounting terms genetic manipulation or screening has a reasonable chance of becoming mainstream in the medium term. Governments will start to do it to ease the health burden of some of the more costly diseases, and if we can simultaneously increase the strength, drive, and intelligence of our population at the same time why not throw it in for free?
I would like a DNA modification to make my metabolism return to age 19.
Because few Americans have seen Measles, Mumps and Rubella first hand they are more willing to take irresponsible risks. Things like a 10% mortality rate make a disease feel safe because people think they will always be in the 90%. Anybody with a cursory knowledge of mortality rates knows that 10% is a horrifying number and that disease must be awful, some strains of Ebola kill 10% of people getting it.
Gene editing is a responsible for a society to engage in eugenics without forced sterilization or killing off undesirable segments.
The 'damage' of this method is opt in. Those who choose to 'stay natural' will fall behind and become a disadvantaged underclass.