Apple needs to update Mac Mini, which hasn't been updated in 3 years | Hacker News Reader

Apple needs to update Mac Mini, which hasn't been updated in 3 years

businessinsider.com

50 pointsartsandsci57 comments

Open articleView on HN

3 years? Try 6. The last "update" was almost the exact same specs, except everything was soldered on.

Mid 2011

Dual-core Intel Core i5

2.3 GHz (2.9 GHz) / 2.5 GHz (3.2 GHz)

Late 2014

Dual-core Intel Core i5

2.6 GHz (3.1 GHz) / 2.8 GHz (3.3 GHz)

The only other difference is user had the option to get 16GB (soldered) RAM at time of purchase and the base price went up $100-200.

Are those the same generation of intel processors? That it's a "core i5" of <x> GHz doesn't really say much.

2011: Sandy Bridge

2014: Haswell

Also at 2014 upgrade they got rid of 4-cores i7, leaving only 2-cores option. Many consider 2014's upgrade to be essentially downgrade.

I had a mid 2011 Mac Mini hooked up to my TV for a while - it was pretty nice overall, although it was the only computer left in my house with a mechanical hard drive.

Rather than upgrade to an SSD, though, I ended up replacing it with a used i3 NUC. (Partially because I wanted to try out the HDMI CEC adapter from Pulse Eight, and partially because the premium from selling the Mac Mini covered the cost of a faster NUC + SSD + CEC adapter with a little bit left over.)

BUT I didn't really use the CEC parts that much, and the Intel sound drivers would "loose" my speakers and start refusing to output sound over HDMI anytime the TV went to sleep, forcing me to reboot the entire computer to get sound again. I ended up giving the NUC to my dad. (The drivers don't seem to exhibit the same bug with his monitor.)

I'm now onto a compute stick + USB sound card (because it had the same HDMI audio bug as the NUC), and I still occasionally wish I had just stuck with the Mac Mini.

Not nearly as elegant of a solution, but I've found that my Pi 3 does a great job of being the 'media box' I've been using my 2nd gen (I think?) Apple TV for. I've been using it with OSMC, wireless keyboard with trackpad, an external hard drive, and an xbox 360 controller. Great little media box. OSMC is dirt simple, I could probably give it to my parents and they'd figure out how to use it pretty quickly.

Of course if I wanted to do computing I'd just use one of the desktop distros.

Yea, I tried that with a first-gen PI and decided it wasn't fast enough, but I imagine the current-gen ones would be.

It also didn't seem quite flexible enough, though - I do a lot of browser-based stuff (Youtube, Netflix, Plex, PBS Video, etc.) And I have a blu-ray drive connected - I usually just rip CDs and movies to my plex server as soon as I buy them, but occasionally I want to play something right away.

And, lastly, I occasionally just use the TV computer to look up random things on the internet.

So, I think I'm stuck with a "real" computer for the time-being (meaning a desktop OS and browser, mostly). A Pi with a regular Raspbian install would probably work, but I've got everything set up and working well at this point, so no reason to change it.

As someone who dislikes the all-in-one form factor of the iMac and quite enjoys being able to mix and match the monitors I want with a tiny, quiet machine, I really hope this happens soon. My current desktop is a 2010 Mini with dual HD displays, and it is getting a bit long in the tooth...

Unless you're dead set on OSX, you could look into one of Intel's NUC kits [1]. I find this one pretty intriguing [2] (other than the skull thing, but they provide a blank faceplate as well), but it does limit you to an M.2 form-factor SSD.

They are a bit expensive for what you're getting, IMO, but they are at least upgradable in some aspects, and similar in form factor to the mac mini.

1. https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/boards-kits... 2. https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/boards-kits...

I've been writing http://taoofmac.com for around 15 years. I'm pretty much dead set on macOS for at least 50% of what I do :)

I've found this is still the most practical way of running a Mac build agent. Other options are to spend thousands on a Mac Pro or MacBook, both of which don't really work in a rack (and I'm being generous by saying the Mac Mini does -- it at least fits in a 1U space).

What are other people doing for Mac build agents?

Same thing you are - racking Mac Minis and crossing my fingers Apple will provide a hardware update in the not-too-distant future. And to get the Mac Mini to work in that environment isn't cheap by the time you get the enclosures, redundant networking, power connections, etc. Add in the need to run copies of MacOS in VMs to support multiple Xcode/iOS build combinations and I need a machine with a LOT more oomph. Heck, we've even started eyeing Mac Pros but are concerned they're being discontinued and aren't well-suited for rack mounting at all.

Same usage here. I desperately want a faster Mac build box. My CEO keeps asking me how we can make it faster and the only answer is, "switch to a hackintosh" =(

It'd be really nice if the new Mac Pro is easily rack-mountable. Maybe Apple could just offer a rack mounted version.

Also, it would be great if you didn't even need Mac hardware to run a build server. Maybe port the xcodebuild command to Linux, or license macOS to run in virtual machines on 3rd party hardware for such purposes.

Article mentions that the Mac Pro is now called the iMac pro... I hope not. I hope the iMac pro is just that, a pro version of the iMac, and that a new Mac Pro comes out as well. I have an original (now 11 year old) Mac Pro 1.1, and it still works. Upgraded the original dual dual cores to dual quads, upgraded memory, added ssd and all still works. I don’t use it as often as I did, once, but I can. And with some hacking, it even runs latest OS X... having it in an iMac format means that if the screen goes, your kind of screwed. And if you want higher res for the main screen.. we’ll your still screwed... I just hope the Mac Pro lives on...

> I hope the iMac pro is just that, a pro version of the iMac, and that a new Mac Pro comes out as well.

That's exactly the roadmap that was announced at the last Apple WWDC: Pro version of the iMac around the end of this year, to be followed by a new Mac Pro (with no built-in monitor) when it's good and ready.

The article is wrong. Apple had a small press roundtable earlier this year and said the Mac Pro lives on and is being completely overhauled. Business Insider missed that.

Apple said they ran in to thermal issues trying to update the Mac Pro, and they're switching to a new design... perhaps sometime in 2018 or 2019.

As growing tired of waiting for updated mac mini:

What are the non-apple options in term of machines if you want to keep using thunderbolt cinema display ? (I'm fine with switching to windows).

Issue there is display's only thunderbolt 2 male cable. It's easy to go from thunderbold female on machine to hdmi/displayport with adapters (macbook to any non-apple display), but what I need is other way around connectivity. Has anyone had any luck with that display and non-apple hardware?

Edited: Ideally keeping camera, speakers and usb hub working..

Thunderbolt displays will only work with a Thunderbolt port. Apparently you can adapt the Thunderbolt display's Thunderbolt 2 mini-display port connector to the newer Thunderbolt 3 connector via Apple's adapter. But you're going to have to research OS support outside Mac OS.

Presumably, the lack of updates isn't just some slip-up.

There's a reason Apple isn't updating it. I would guess it is doing poorly relative to other consumer Macs and has little strategic value.

(Probably, the Mac Pro sold very poorly which is why Apple let it languish as well. But they eventually realized it's strategic value and decided to put some resources into fixing it. The Apple TV probably also has not done well historically, but has tremendous strategic value, so they haven't let it languish too much.)

What I'd really like to see is Mac Pros that use Core i5 and i7, starting around $1500 or a bit more, compared to the Xeon models starting at $3000. These new machines would be called the Mac Tower and the Mac Tower Pro.

Then Apple could make a smaller, quiet, SSD-only Mac mini, and push down the starting price.

I figure that there are two groups who like the Mac mini: those who want a cheap and small desktop Mac, and those who want a modular desktop Mac, but don't need a Mac Pro.

I seriously just want a Macbook Air with high res screen. Everything else about it is 100% perfect for me.

I suppose thats what the MacBook Pro with out Touchbar is supposed to be, but I think a 12" MacBook with a few more ports (honesty at least 2 USB C) would be a closer replacement.

It's starting to feel a little like the Macs in the 90s. More and more models and it's hard to figure out what to choose.

I went up from an 11" Air to a 13" Pro, and I feel it's a lot less portable. The 12" MacBook would be _perfect_ for me if I could get 2 USB-C ports (or more). But having only one means it would be even harder to use the 12" than my 13" Function key, which already requires at least one dongle to use effectively for 'pro' level work.

The closest thing to that would be the 12" MacBook. I really think Apple needs to put the MacBook Air line out to pasture. They haven't updated it in a couple years and it was honestly never that great to begin with.

They should just focus on the MacBook and the MacBook Pro. With the new 13" MacBook Pros, the weight and footprint is getting ever closer to the MacBook Air, so that's also an option.

Price, especially including dongles, says something else. Out of the box connectivity of anything but MBA is just awful. So are the keyboards.

I really think Apple needs to put the MacBook Air line out to pasture. They haven't updated it in a couple years and it was honestly never that great to begin with.

Is it not selling very well? It seems unlikely to me that Apple, as ruthlessly efficient and profitable as they are, would continue making an old product if it's not selling. More likely is that it is selling and selling really well in some segments of the market. I would even conjecture that it is one of the more profitable products in the Mac line-up due to the lower cost of old technology.

The MacBook Air hasn't been updated since Early 2015, not as long as the mini's gone without an update but unlike the mini, I doubt they've make a new MacBook Air.

The 13" MacBook Pro weighs the same as the MacBook Air (well, the MBP is .06 lbs heavier) and is thinner than the Air at its thickest point (0.59 in. vs. 0.11 to 0.68 in.) . Apple's battery life estimate is longer for the Air than the MBP but that would not be true if they added a Retina display to the Air.

The MacBook Air is better at slicing cake than the 13"in MacBook Pro.

MacBook Air hasn't been updated since Early 2015

I get that. My point is that Apple's not going to discontinue a product that continues to sell well enough to make it highly profitable. Likewise, if sales are not tapering off then there is little reason to update it unless they can cut costs by doing so.

This isn't the 90s anymore. A computer that's 6 years old is not 16x slower than a brand new one.

That might well work one day in the future, but today, a MacBook Air with retina display would be a significantly better machine, given the TDP of the CPUs typically used in the Air vs the passively cooled 12" MacBook.

This is the computer huge numbers of people want, but Apple force up the range to the entry level 13" MacBook Pro (which incidentally IIRC currently has the same TDP class CPUs as the existing Air...) to get a decent display.

Really the entry level 13 inch MacBook Pro should start at $999, given it largely _is_ a MacBook Air but with Retina display and TB3. Heck the 13 inch Pro is technically thinner as well now, even if the wedge shape of the Air makes the Air seem smaller. They all but weigh the same now too.

> it [The MacBook Air] was honestly never that great to begin with

In absolute terms perhaps not, and definitely not at launch. Later models however offered a pretty compelling mix of price, size and performance for a long time. Especially the performance to battery life ratio, which at various times has been one of the best compromises in Apple's lineup. There's a reason sites like the Wirecutter and the Verge kept it their recommended machine "for most people" for such a long time. I still think later versions of the Air are some of the best machines Apple has made at their respective peaks, again "for most people".

Yup, for me the current Apple lineup is a bit more than needed in the 13in Mac Pro, and a little low in the Macbook. And neither are giving real battery life/perf ratio that I'm looking for - so there's a gap. If not Apple then as an alternative I keep hoping that some linux shop will put in some power integration work to a quality PC-supply chain sourced laptop - because if I could get 10-12 hrs of light use battery life I think I'd switch.

Same here ... Macbook Air desperately needs a better screen. I reluctantly bought one recently just for the quality and reliability. Perhaps Apple is concerned that it would cut into their MacBook Pro sales too much.

I prefer the Air over the Pro. Hands down.

13 inch, Touch ID, high dpi, terabyte ssd. What would you pay?

Whatever they charge for it.

I'd say $3000 max.

Arguably they already built what you want in that budget. It's called the 13 Inch MacBook Pro, it's already thinner than the Air (1.49cm vs 1.7cm at the Air's thickest point) and can be specified as argued.

They basically weigh the same now too (~20 grams between them).

I like the wedge shape and the battery life, which isn't even comparable to the MacBook Pro I had. Haven't seen one IRL yet and I'm not sure about the new keyboards, but I'll check one out someday after my Air(s) die.

Oh, and no touch screen that I know of yet...

But you get to use a whole variety of dongles. It's all rather inelegant.

The mini has special challenges. It is a low volume product compared to the the iPhones, iPads, and iMacs. There are probably 100 iPhones sold for each mini. Simultaneously, it is a cost sensitive product, sitting at the bottom of the Apple computer price list. It is probably difficult to recover the engineering, qc, and manufacturing costs to change a model.

Couple this with a baffling inability of Intel's market segmentation machinations to cough out a pair of chips which make sense for a low end and a high end mini and there really isn't a compelling reason to make a new model. Intel's newer offerings just don't offer enough bang to pay the mini product development buck.

Strategically, I think they would be better off going with AMD on the Mini. It's total units are tiny and they can leverage this into even better deals from Intel.

The problem is that Intel's CPUs are significantly more power efficient than AMDs.

That's not true anymore with Ryzen. See here (french, but you should be able to read the graphs): http://www.hardware.fr/articles/959-4/consommation-efficacit...

Ryzen is a desktop CPU, and mini PCs (like NUC) tend to use laptop parts, e.g. Intel 15W U-series, or 45W H-series. Ryzen is not even in the correct market segment.

Raven Ridge is scheduled to be released Q3.

I'm not sure if AMD could offer Thunderbolt, which might be a deal breaker for Apple.

> It is probably difficult to recover the engineering, qc, and manufacturing costs to change a model.

How much R&D can there be for Mac Minis when almost everything but the case is a commodity part?

Aside from considerations of cost, it should be embarrassing to Apple to sell such outdated tech at these high prices.

Sure, they are outdated. But if you sat a user down in front of a current Mac Mini and one using one of Intel's equivalent wattage and price point parts which shipped in volume in the past six months, would a user notice the difference? Short of benchmarking I doubt they would. The new parts just aren't compelling.

If they wanted to use the Mac mini for a "home theater" they might notice that the mini can't handle 4K/UHD resolutions above 30Hz.

Even outside home theater use, they may notice watching H.265 videos on a computer without hardware decoding (not really a problem now, very much will be a problem within the lifespan of a mini purchased today).

They'll notice if they have another, actually new Mac in their lives and find the mini has no USB-C ports, either for Thunderbolt 3 or even USB 3.1 (of course this is also true of the Mac Pro but at least they've 'fessed up about that).

First off this is partly a self fullfilling prophecy: I'm increasingly less likely to buy one the longer it takes them to update it.

Also, they've effectively pushed me to other vendors for small form factor PC's now. I needed a small form factor HTPC and was ready to just casually buy a Mini, until I saw they hadnt updated it in years. I switched to a smaller and cheaper chromebox which I put Linux on, and I won't be going back to Mac minis now because I found a better cheaper solution.

On the on hand, thanks apple, on the other theyre doing it to themselves from my perspective.

iPado Pro with iOS11, is pretty much the computing devices Apple has always envisioned for. So it is time to let iPad be that devices, and start treating Mac as workstation / production, professional uses.

Everything in the Mac lineup is a joke. Macbook Pro with Touchbar, we already had a discussion on that few days ago, forcing a $200 component on every Macbook Pro. Keyboard, even the so called improved Version 2.0 in Macbook Pro 2017 still sucks. And it is very VERY common to have keys not working properly. Just ask any friends working in Apple Retails.

iMac Pro, lets wait and see because I could not figure out, without a change of design how they managed to cool down 500W TDP within the same space. And the things is, I have this suspicious they could always have done it, but decided not to.

Mac Mini, It hasn't been downgraded for 3 years when they last took the Quad Core option out.

All Desktop Mac, still have HDD as default. No amount of CPU Core, GB of Memory is going to get you the speed improvement of SSD. And Apple talks about caring for User Experience?

One thing they could do to extend the life of the existing hardware would be to cost reduce the middle tier $699 2.6GHz 8GB RAM Mac Mini to the $499 price point. I have to think that at least some of the memory and drive components have dropped in price over the past 3 years.

Mac Mini i7 (2012) makes an awesome VMWare ESXi box - I run a few VMs on mine (cheaper than cloud for a test environment)

I'd be shocked if there wasn't a Mini refresh this next event...

Does it?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com