Let’s kill no-reply
medium.com
medium.com
deny
message = MYDOM does not accept SMTP traffic from "noreply" senders. \
E-mail is a "two-way street". \
If you want us to accept \
your mail, then please accept replies.
senders = ^.*noreply.*\$ : ^.*do.*not.*reply.*\$
Unfortunately, this has to be immediately followed by a whitelist: !senders = *@sourceforge.net : github.com : [ ... others ]e.g. in another response someone linked https://github.com/jpmckinney/multi_mail/wiki/Detecting-auto...
Will some things filter through this list? Undoubtedly, but I would be surprised if it's a significant percentage. Extremely high-volume lists probably need some more specific care, to be sure.
If you asked people, one per month would be a 'working' system, if you catch them on a good day. 'Never' is a very long time.
The auto replies will go to the envelope sender email. I prefer to set that to something like email@mydomain.com rather than noreply@mydomain.com because noreply just looks so unfriendly.
Replies from real people will go to the reply-to email (customers@mydomain.com) and bounces/auto-replies will go to the sender address (email@mydomain.com). You can then write a script that automatically clears the auto-replies and handles the bounces from the email@mydomain.com inbox.
This will allow you to still handle real customer inquiries that come into the reply-to email without being bombarded with bounces and auto-replies.
That is correct; for transactional e-mails I use a throwaway e-mail alias system (operated via a web front end). Messages targetting these e-mail aliases bypass all these rules.
Every email we send out has a blurb like this:
"Please let us know if you have any questions. You may reply to this email or reach us at support@..."
Yes, we get some bounces and vacation/out of office auto-replies but the benefits far outweigh having to delete a few auto-replies that got through the filters.
This has been our experience as well, though maybe it's different for purely B2B communications. We're mostly B2C, and we've never found out-of-office replies to be a significant problem.
Not only it's good for the customers, it's good for you because you definitely want customers to contact you when they have a problem (or when they believe you're sending too many emails). You want them to contact you to give you a chance to make them happy customer who stay with you, not grumpy customer who quit your service before even giving you an opportunity to fix their problem.
Obviously non-customers would be fed over to either sales directly or a Sales Engineer.
In my company's case, it's more like 0.1%, but perhaps some are higher.
I understand why we have the no-reply and auto-reply emails, and it makes a lot of sense in many ways, but there's also a very large blind spot where two systems don't realize they're talking to each other and not to humans; the system does exactly what it should be, it's just not what we want it to be doing.
We send from "auto@", but have a reply-to of "support@" or something more specific depending on the exact case. This does seem to help a little bit with slightly reducing non-human emails.
What actually is more of a problem is spam and unsolicited non-customer email. But still, it takes half a second to close them.
Which is ultimately why many systems encourage you to go through already established and protected schemes for doing things.
We do that and get the occasional reply, but when we do, people are usually happy to get a quick, personal response.
Once you're larger, using more purpose-suited emails that route correctly is better (e.g. marketing@example.com or billing@example.com routed to the correct customer service teams).
Similar with the hi@company suggested below - I've seen hello@company used a lot (PR companies seem to love it) and always found it weird to not know who (person or role) I am addressing.
It's kinda impressive, actually.
Auto responders generally send their messages to the mail Sender. That seems correct to me. We send automated mail from robot@, with a Reply-to of support@ -- because that's logically what's happening.
All of bounces just end up back at the robot, and IMO that's where they belong (and potentially can even be dealt with automatically). The vast majority of out-of-office do that too. And humans end up emailing support.
The name 'robot' was chosen to gently imply to the user a few things.
But actually allowing replies to the email itself is just asking to get a lot of low-quality spammy replies that now you have to pay someone to wade through.
X-WantVacationReplies: noThese exist!
https://stackoverflow.com/a/10839343/1250772
This answer points at RFC containing recommendations for auto-reply e-mails, and specifies a header to use.
Any new proposal will fall victim to the same opt-in problem to an even greater degree; if developers of auto-responders can't be bothered to follow this RFC, they will also ignore even newer recommendations.
If I give them my personal email address (risking low-quality spammy email) then they should at least give me a real corporate address when they send me an email, accepting the risk of a low-quality spammy reply. That's power symmetry.
Others probably exist, but that is the one I know about.
Like another poster said, people can build their flaws into machines.
Realistically customers are going to fwd those emails anyway so this approach is more robust.
It seems like most information in these emails would be available to support staff typically though. It sounds like a niche case.
Everything does if you just glance at someone's comment online and dash one off.
How do you recognize which is the sensitive content and which isn't? How do you handle the case where you send out HTML emails, but the response strips all of the HTML and sends plain text back?
First, it's ok for the company to send confidential info via email? I don't think so. Email is not a secure transport mechanism.
Second, email accounts are often the target of phishing and cyber attacks, so that's the last place you should enable the customer to store sensitive information.
Third, how does "noreply@" actually prevent the customer from sending a reply, disclosing the confidential information at every hop along the way to being bounced by your server? It doesn't. Or to "support" personnel; well maybe if you exclude your admins from the "support" classification but they're likely collecting those emails in an unnamed inbox or logging them somewhere? And what if the customer's (possibly third-party) admins are collecting bounces as they proactively monitor SMTP reputation for the domain and IP address?
Please, just erase the idea that it's ok to send confidential information via email from your head. Send a link to a password-protected page. If you want to be extra vigilant, require temp password via SMS to reset that password. And if you want to be hyper-vigilant, use TOTP as a 2FA mechanism for password reset. And if it really requires secrecy, send it via courier followed by an assassin to kill the courier. (Joking, not an incitement to criminal activity)
While customers may love email, some (many?) customer service people actually don't. The trouble I have heard couple of times is that with email you usually never manage to solve the issue in one pass. Customer fires off email with insufficient details. Your service center checks the case, asks for more details. Customer does not respond immediately. When the reply comes, the person who originally handled the cases is not at work or has forgotten the details. You can call up the customer - if the customer has provided you the number, but that has it's own challenges. Customer can't talk right now, you need to call back at certain time etc.
In some cases it simply does not work out financially to provide personalized customer service. Too many customers are so cheap that they prefer to deal with your competitor who automates things.
I've seen proposals[1] for a solution where the sender of an email pays a small fee to the recipient of the email. If you are sending as much email as you are receiving you wouldn't have to worry about using up your email. If you are sending a mass email, you will end up paying for it.
In the case of no-replies, it would discourage the sender from sending an email that doesn't need to be replied to.
These emails are truly noreply, there is no inbox, any incoming mail is blackholed. There is no sense in receiving it, it's automated and the software does not react to incoming mails. There is no reason to reply, there is no sense in replying, there is no way to reply, why demand the ability to reply?
Why would I have me reading the garbage that piles up there? If you have a problem, contact postmaster/webmaster/root/etc.
If I send you mail from a real human account, you can reply there. Simple as that.
It seems a bit like someone demanding that the radio should respond to their choice of music. Sure, if you want that, get a music app (aka a meat-email) and stop listening to the radio (aka the machine-email)
I do not feel like I should be sending mail from postmaster and the reply-to header does not feel any more appropriate.
These emails are 100 percent automatic and do not require you to reply. Ever.
Wouldn't it make sense once in a while to turn on receipt to see how bad your bounce rate is instead of ignoring it?
And I'm truly not interested in what someone has to say to an email that says "noreply"
This is a very outdated 1990s mentality.
Most modern web users would have no idea that such a thing exists (or should exist), and they're probably the same users who also have no idea that WHOIS exists and know how to find contact details for a domain owner using it.
It's also a little user-hostile to assume that nobody is ever going to question something they receive from an automated system. In that case, why make the user journey unnecessarily difficult by forcing them to find an alternative route to contact you?
My users aren't the kind of users that will respond to such emails.
Again, I don't see a reason to why I need to reply to emails which are explicitly only ever sent if the user chooses to at which point they have been warned about noreply and the emails themselves reinclude such warnings with the proper contact email, especially since this group of users are knowledgeable enough to not reply in the first place.
Section 4 states that auto-responders should send the response to the email address given by the Return-Path header (usually set to a VERP address for identification of bounces) or if absent then fall back to the email address given in the From header.
They'll see noreply@, and not bother to dig up a support email address and forget about your company's offerings.
However, seeing a welcoming replieswelcome@ email, they can ask their simple question while they're thinking of it, which then becomes a warm lead, and possibly even convert into a paying customer.
"Oooh, Ahh", that's how it always starts. But then later there's running, and screaming.I'm writing from the perspective of a customer. As a customer, I don't care how your email queues work. I do care that you sent me an email and forbid me from replying to it. It chafes. And you want my money?
From the perspective of a company, I can sympathize. I've been directed to create noreply-sending mailers in the course of my job. In every case, it would have been better sent from support@, but because of understandable but dumb reasons (bureaucratic laziness; not-my-problem-itis), it's way easier just to turn on the mailing hose and forget replies. So that's what we did.
I've also worked on handling bounces of both email replies and (cringe) faxes. Yes, handling bounces can be annoying, but to create a good customer experience I think it's worth the cost.
Additionally, if a service is over sending, there are lots of unsubscribe laws and rules to address that to your own personal preference.
As I've never even paid attention to the sending address of GitHub merge notifications, perhaps the principle is: "If someone notices that your email came from noreply@ then you shouldn't use noreply@"
(And, no, you don't seem critical -- more like thoughtful)
/s
I feel like this predicament resembles the story in the children's book: Half Magic (http://a.co/e8JrhbU).
And this post makes me hunt google to find what "kthxbye" means...