1. More often than not, it's not something nefarious or convoluted, but something very simple. 2. A lot of the things Google does are for the protection of the users themselves (whether from themselves or from outside forces).
(Disclaimer: I work for Google).
It especially does not matter that it wasn't nefarious when Google isn't going to listen to you anyway unless you happen to write a blog post that happens to get viral in the right circles.
It's not like there's a simple form that you can fill and which is reviewed and resolved in a few days reliably if your account gets deactivated by mistake. At that point you might as well be banging your head on a wall for all the good that will do.
Even a few days is unacceptable. There are times in my life where, if my Google Calendar, Google Docs, and email had all been shut off simultaneously, even for only a few days, I would have been completely fucked. Think travel, etc.
I switched to a different email provider for this reason.
(Remember that this also includes your phone, if you're on an Android device).
Is that inherent in using Android, or only if you use Google's own apps and online storage for your calendar etc?
If you want that level of service, maybe you shouldn't use a free product.
You can have a free product, or you can have good, responsive, human customer service. You can't have both.
If you chose a free product, be ready to handle the consequences of your decision like everybody else.
...did you not read the part where I said I switched to a different provider?
And I was a paying customer - I had a Google Apps account, which comes with an annual fee for providing those services.
Of course, the problem isn't about me personally - it's that so many other, less technically savvy people aren't aware of how vulnerable they are to this problem. They don't think about it until it happens to them.
> You can have a free product, or you can have good, responsive, human customer service. You can't have both
This dichotomy is both reductive and inapplicable. The problem, as explained in this thread, is that Google has a reputation for bad service, even for their paid offerings. It exists, which is more than can be said of the support for the free products, but it's still not good enough. And again, most customers aren't aware of the extent of this and its implications until it's too late.
Agreed, and doesn't need to be less tech-savvy people, just look at HN. People seem to expect good and free service.
> This dichotomy is both reductive and inapplicable.
And is still unavoidable. You can't have both.
> And again, most customers aren't aware of the extent of this and its implications until it's too late.
It is the same behavior with airline tickets. Consumers almost always buy the cheapest ticket, and later complain about the quality of the service.
It is entirely irrelevant to this thread and discussion. We are talking about the service for one paid product (Google Apps), on a thread announcing the service for another paid product (Google Chrome Enterprise).
No, OP is talking about this case, which is a free product:
I am sure the first objection will be "you don't actually pay". Does a farmer not owe his (cash) cow at least basic veterinary (customer) services? I honestly feel like that objection is as naive as claiming that exploitative international trade doesn't actually kill anybody, when there are entire populations held in poverty and without basic safety rights over decades or even centuries due to unjust practices. So I guess the counterpoint to "it's free, don't expect anything" is "if you can't provide a complete product including understanding the problems that derive from it and treating people with respect, you shouldn't offer it at all". Money does not define social responsibility, engaging publicly with other people does.
It is still "free". You don't pay anything to use it.
> they do make a significant amount of money from each customer they can keep in the herd
No, they make a small amount of money from each customer. By far not enough to provide human 24/7 customer support.
> despite the fact that their income could more than support some basic customer service
If that's a fact I'm sure you'll be able to provide enough support to such a claim.
But let's do some basic math. Let's say that Gmail has 1B users, and each user will use customer support once every 2 years, and that each support ticket costs $10 to provide (I've heard similar numbers). Probably far more when you think about all the languages and products.
That's $5B in support per year. Which is 20% of their 2016 profit.
There you go, you can't have a free service and good customer support. Proven.
But hey, you're welcome to vote with your wallet and clicks, and move to another provider that gives free products with free, good, 24/7 human customer support.
Let me guess: you won't. Because there are none. Because it doesn't make any financial sense.
I've never put myself in a position where a freeware product had that much impact on my life. Heck I even pay to backup the paid services to a third party so I have a failover there.
You shouldn't blame Google, you should blame yourself.
Just because it's a consumer (rather than business) account doesn't mean we shouldn't have customer service, if we're willing to pay for it. There's no reason Google can't cater to us while also providing no-service free products.
I'd bet that type of customer service costs far more than that.
> Just because it's a consumer (rather than business) account doesn't mean we shouldn't have customer service, if we're willing to pay for it. There's no reason Google can't cater to us while also providing no-service free products.
And I'd bet there are too few consumers willing to pay for it to justify Google offering. It is the old argumentum ad capitalismum, if it would make money, I'm sure Google would offer it.
Even if few people are paying for it, it's worth it to address the negative perception about Google.
You seem to be assuming that Google (or any other company) does everything right, so if they're not doing it, it's a bad idea. That's not true. Companies make mistakes all the time.
In other words, a second-tier email service rather than the best in breed.
> In my uni most people do not care if they lose their gmail
No one's forcing them to pay for support.
Then nobody will use it, and you've set up a massive support infra in 100's of languages for ~0 paying users.
> You seem to be assuming that Google (or any other company) does everything right, so if they're not doing it, it's a bad idea. That's not true. Companies make mistakes all the time.
I'm assuming that people making those decisions are as smart as me, and if I can think about it, I'm sure they thought about it.
I never base my arguments solely on "other people are making mistakes".
That's before we get into the issue of trying to serve both a mass market and a niche at the same time. It doesn't work. Google should not try to serve the several thousands or few million users who want a fully-featured, paid product for personal use.
An add-on of the kind I'm suggesting is exactly the way to serve both a mass market and a niche at the same time. Everyone uses Gmail, but the few who want support for personal use pay. That's much less effort than building another product with paid support.
It's also no different from freemium mobile apps where 2-5% of users pay.
Google decision-makers are smart, but not infallible.
If this software exists and it is an adequate substitute to Google products.. well, let's just use it then.
I think with great trust comes great responsibility, and Google is eroding this trust, as shown in this thread, with kafkaesque processes around account termination.
However, as a general principal, I've found that Google has very robust protections to protect users from both themselves, and from malicious outside forces.
(Disclaimer: I work for Google).
However, the general principals I stated do apply in many cases.
Also - the author of that post has posted a reply:
https://twitter.com/salilstatistics/status/89986397181723852...
Without the huge stink that my prominence created, I would still be locked out. Also, I'm not allowed to talk about why I was banned (which would help others not get banned), nor how someone less notable could've gotten their life back.
"..those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
I recently had an issue where a hijacker, from another country, was able to take over my account and change the password, without access to the backup email, the SMS, or anything except the password.
Google even mailed me a warning that this user from another country was accessing the account, and changing the password.
When I tried to get it restored – I knew the phone number (but had no access anymore because the number was reassigned to another person), had the old password, access to backup email, knew the content of emails on the account, etc – I was denied.
It was easier to get the user who got my old number, contact them, and go together with them through all the steps to get the account back.
To top it even off, after I had contacted Google support about this originally, they never contacted me back – instead, once I recovered the account, I found that instead they had talked with the hijacker.
And you tell me this was to protect me? Honestly, fuck that.
A lot of people hate this answer, but do not entrust Google, Yahoo^H^H^H^H^HOath, or any other big free service with gatekeeper status to anything financial or, really, anything more important than chatting with pals. Host it with someone trustworthy; if that is not you or someone you personally trust, then someone you pay, who will listen to your instructions to, say, never change credentials over the phone, or however you wish to structure it.
> And you tell me this was to protect me?
...In the same sense that the managers of public buildings' preference for you to piss yourself in public over cleaning formerly public restrooms is "for your protection".
But in 2011, no 2FA existed yet, so the old account had none. I had mostly forgotten about it.
Still, I didn't want anyone using it to spam to friends, family, etc in my name.
Then let's not make them happen.
> 2. A lot of the things Google does are for the protection of the users themselves (whether from themselves or from outside forces).
Please please please listen to customer and figure out how to protect them.