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Comment by zedshaw | Hacker News Reader

I'd say, learn Python or Ruby, doesn't matter, but try them both for a few days. One will click and the other won't.

If you go the Python route, I've got a free book I'm working for beginners that might be too beginner for you:

But I reference two other books on that page which actually could be a good start for you. After that, check out the Django book:

http://www.djangobook.com/en/2.0/

Which will teach you Django, a very popular web framework (more popular than Rails actually).

I'd also say, take everything I say with a grain of salt. I'm humorously famous for hating Rails.

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I second the suggestion of trying out both Ruby and Python. Both languages are modern and agile but with distinct styles such that one will likely fit your brain better than the other.

Also, regarding Python web frameworks, I would highly recommend looking at Web2Py over Django for your needs (something that gets you up and running with a minimum of fuss) Web2Py is supposed to be more Rails-like than Django which might be a good thing in your case. (Also, check out Cube2Py for something to look forward to: http://vimeo.com/13154869)

Disclaimer: I am of a similar background (Engineer/MBA/Entrepreneur looking for a platform to rapidly prototype ideas) For folks like us, scaling can wait until you validate the idea and confirm that a real market exists, then you can raise capital and add real developers to help you scale.

Rapid prototyping is exactly what I'm looking for. From what I'm hearing here it sounds like Rails is a great platform for that. Also looking at the MBA at some point ;-)

Which will teach you Django, a very popular web framework (more popular than Rails actually)

No, it's not. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1459119

I generally agree with your comment, but I found this stament to be inaccurate:

> (more popular than Rails actually)

[citation needed]. The largest websites/web applications in the world are built in Rails much more frequently than in Django. And there is much more demand for Rails developers in the marketplace. I fail to see evidence that Django is actually used more than Rails is in the real world.

The largest websites/web applications in the world are built in Rails much more frequently than in Django.

While we're calling each other out for citations, that's an awfully big statement to make without citations as well.

Let's just put it this way: Both frameworks power large sites, you pretty much can't go wrong with either.

> While we're calling each other out for citations, that's an awfully big statement to make without citations as well.

I made the statement because I'm ready to back it up. Among the most popular 1000 sites on the web, you will find at least a dozen Rails sites [1]. There are extremely common names like Twitter, Hulu, Scribd, Justin.TV, White/Yellow Pages, Urban Dictionary, etc. How many Django sites do you see in the top 1000? Curse.com was one of the largest Django sites out there (a case study in the 1st edition of the Django Book). They switched to ASP.NET upon being acquired.

[1] http://rails100.pbworks.com/Alexa+Rankings

> Let's just put it this way: Both frameworks power large sites, you pretty much can't go wrong with either.

Without a doubt. And I've made this exact point many times before. I was just arguing against the unsubstantiated claim made by the op of this thread.

Didn't twitter move to Scala for their website ?

no. they use scala for some of their services, like message queues.

You may want to reread his post. The penultimate sentence is a kicker.

Yeah it's a hoot, especially coming from the guy who will kill people not using statistics, which is a great read btw. http://www.zedshaw.com/essays/programmer_stats.html

I'm sure it's just an off-the-cuff remark. I've made plenty in my day.

I'm sure it's just an off-the-cuff remark.

The guy weighs in on the opposite side of something that is common knowledge, then says you should check what I'm saying because I could be fibbing, oh and I'm famous for having a bias against the side I've just disfavoured — and you reach that conclusion?

If I were a cynic I'd say both you and he were trolling, but I rather think he was just taking the mickey and it's turned into a rather droll black comedy.

> and you reach that conclusion?

I think Zed is a good guy. He is certainly civil in person and tends to have well thought out arguments. I was surprised by the claim without any data to back it up. I missed the whole implicit common knowledge part. I thought people were trying to defend his statement.

> it's turned into a rather droll black comedy.

I'll defer to you on this one. I wasn't intending on being a troll, so sorry if it turned out that way.

I'm just annoyed that I was getting downvoted over what I thought were valid questions.

aah, it was supposed to be humorous. Jeez, I guess the jokes on me.

> and you reach that conclusion?

The only conclusion I have reached so far is that you are a dick.

I don't expect you'll respond, but, what happened in the 4 hours between your first civil response and this second rather uncouth one?

It figures you downvoted me. You will probably downvote this one too.

I was sort of thinking about it, and I realized you were screwing with me. It's sortof humorous and dickish (sorry douchey is more appropriate) at the same time.

I don't hate you, but it's not how I would conduct myself, especially if somebody is obviously ignorant over a certain context of discussion.

> second rather uncouth one

I thought it was appropriate. I could have been more high-brow about it, but why bother? You would have downvoted me anyway and would not have been any more sympathetic. It certainly made me feel better.

Also using lmgtfy, classy! (I had another comment but decided I didn't want to get downvoted twice by you, so I merged it).

It figures you downvoted me. You will probably downvote this one too.

So that's what concerned you. The points don't matter. Seriously, they don't mean anything and certainly shouldn't change the way you interact with people. Particularly as you don't know who is doling out the points.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1505323

> So that's what concerned you. The points don't matter.

That's your response? How very caviler of you.

It does matter because it's communication, albeit binary and pretty bad, about how well your comment is being received. It matters emotionally, just like a scowl matters, or a joke at your expense matters.

It's also a form of censorship and throwing rotten food on the poster.

> Particularly as you don't know who is doling out the points

Well, that is part of the problem, isn't it? Humans are not completely logical, Dr. Spock. Including me and you... We gotta make assumptions sometimes in absence of information. Well cool, I found out something new, you got your jab in there. Win-win.

Point taken about how the voting algorithm works.

I can only assume that your vitriol stems from my lmgtfy post and so for that I apologise. My comment about the points was and is both sincere and practical advice and I hope you can revisit that post and my others in a less antagonistic light.

Thank you, and no worries. It's been a few days and I'm well over it.

I get the message you were trying to get across and I agree with it.

Mainly, I perceived you as being rude and disdainful (lmgtfy, "That is your conclusion?"). I can't speak for everybody, but my immediate reaction is to feel stupid, and then get defensive. It's hard to take a step back and realize how minor it is when in the moment.

I know that was not your intention. I really do appreciate you sticking this out.

I'm not a big fan of the "Bullshit statement." -> "I may be trolling" approach. He is still spreading misinformation that people here may believe as true.

For those that don't know, most probably do... but I would like to point out the irony in Zed's statement. He's most famously known for creating Mongrel [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongrel_(web_server)], an open source HTTP server for Ruby commonly used in Rails deployments.

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