Hacker News Reader

Comment by petra | Hacker News Reader

1000 euros per 20 years = 50 euro per year.

250 euros per ~7.5 years = 33 euros per year.

See the problem ?

But also improving the reliability of washing machines isn't hard or expensive. Remember, you're talking about a machine that the most common source of problem with it is a broken/faulty lid switch. cheap and easy to fix.

Surely, with that level of engineered failure(or maybe extreme cost engineering), there's similar stuff hidden there.

View on HN

Also a common fault is the bearings supporting the drum. These actually take a lot of beating. In the olden days, you could replace them for $15 and two hours of straight-forward work. When my ~ 5 year old Bosch failed last year, I spent an hour on the teardown just to discover they now plastic weld the drum shut, so you instead have to buy a new $150 drum assembly. Youtube had teardowns of the same model built a few years earlier, which was still repairable; there were even still bolt holes right next to the plastic weld on mine. At which point I said screw you Bosch, I'm buying a new Miele. Here's hoping it lasts 20 years.

Huh, I thought Bosch still had replaceable bearings. That's disappointing.

I've never been convinced about the idea of serious engineered failure for this type of device. I think there are two problems, both consumer-related; price sensitivity (adjusted for inflation, these machines are far cheaper than they used to be) and demand for features (more modes, smartphone integration, bigger drum, higher spin speed), and something has to give.

If you compare a low-end washing machine, say a Whirlpool or Inndesit or something, to a mid-range one (Bosch etc), to a high-end one (Miele), it's immediately obvious what's going on. On the low-end one, costs are cut to the bone; everything feels flimsy. The door, the drum, even the buttons feel cheap and flimsy. The mid-range one, things feel better (and repairs become easier; easily replaceable drums etc). The top-end one feels like an industrial machine (and durability improves; high-quality motors, the afore-mentioned iron counterweight and so on).

To a large extent, with washing machines, you get what you pay for (as long as you avoid smartphone integration and other nonsense). There's consumer demand for really, really cheap ones, so manufacturers make them, and they break quickly. You can still buy a top-end one which will last, but it'll cost you.

I'd be convinced that companies are seriously interested in offering good value combined with reliability or just repairability, when they'll start seriously marketing their products as such[1].

So far, only miele does that marketing, but sadly without the price.

[1]Gigabyte did/does that with motherboards, their ultra-durable line, when they tell you all kind of technical stuff(like "we use tantalum capacitors" which attack a common and cheap MB failure point) to convince you it's reliable.

Bosch kind of markets that way, though as mentioned elsewhere in the thread, they may not be as reliable or serviceable as they used to be.

"Feels flimsy" doesn't mean they can't last.

I paid usd$350 for our new Kenmore washer in 1995. I have had it apart three times in that period, all for repairs that cost less than $50 in parts and at most two hours time.

Contrast this with our 2012 $950 Bosch dishwasher, which broke three times in its second year of service (1-year warranty), and cost collectively $850 to fix because nothing was user serviceable. We threw it out when it broke the fourth time.

My experience with home appliances has been mostly that the cheaper ones last _longer_ than the expensive ones.

Not buying, replacing, installing, or disposing of three washers: Priceless.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com