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Comment by quadcore | Hacker News Reader

I think management fails when they don't understand that the nerds hired them and not the opposite. We are the technology, we did it in the first place. We hired managers to help us. By default, we know better than them (because we are the one who do the tech), they should listen to us and not the opposite. Now, when everybody knows his place, we can collaborate and do great work.

I got the luck to work with great managers at amazon. From what I've seen, programmers are driving the company there - or at least, they have their word to say, often, and power that comes with it. On my team, decisions relative to product development were clearly strongly driven by us. Seems to work pretty well for amazon.

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The tone you use here helps make my point: just because "nerds" are experts in everything tech does NOT equate to good decision making / good management for the company as a whole. Sometimes it does. Often times it does not. Things aren't usually that black and white; "I built it, so I should run it." Just had this convo with a coworker the other day. He was telling me about all the complaints from the dev team and how we should let them drive the bus. I had to remind him of all the good-tech-but-bad-business ideas several of them have offered in the past. In my experience, the rare "nerd" who also intimately understands the nuances of every day business (relationships, the board, profit margins, brand experiences, etc.) is hard to beat.

I agree with the argument but not the evidence - I have seen a lot of good tech managed directly into the ground by management teams that have clear track records of non-success. Bad products being sold and kept alive through clever / kleptocratic / crony business practices is what the market for enterprise anything has become because all the purchasers and sellers are one and the same - people that are never the users of said products or even the services and that can skillfully resolve themselves of blame while taking credit for "success" and somehow justifying it all as "positive thinking."

just because "nerds" are experts in everything tech does NOT equate to good decision making / good management for the company as a whole.

You think a programmer's job and abilities stops where they don't. Programmers do understand what the customer want. They ship to customers. I'm not saying programmers don't need help though.

False. I was directly reacting to what the OP said (below), which said nothing of a relationship w/ customers. Personally, I'm a proponent of having devs closely involved in every step of the product, including messaging and marketing. But that's not what this post was about.

> We are the technology, we did it in the first place.

> By default, we know better than them (because we are the one who do the tech)

On contrary i have also seen management make bad decisions as well. As evidenced by the results.

I often feel evidence is used selectively.

Statement - Programmers are bad business decisions Evidence - Often use single example point that out.

Statement Managers are good at business decisions - Tons of bad decisions over the years - Apparently still good at business decisions?

I wouldn't formulate it so smug, but I think you're kinda right.

I met many founders over the years and those with technical background were the best.

The non-technical founders had often bad ideas to start with or were piggy backing on the techies, while putting them down with their big words etc.

It might be the case with companies like Amazon, but in other areas, or in government contracting, the contractors were present long before current technology was born. And they are still the ones running the show, IT is just a current commodity they sell.

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