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Comment by SOLAR_FIELDS | Hacker News Reader

One of the more interesting comments in the article is in regards to the social stigma of only consuming water during meals - people who have quit alcohol for various reasons have faced the same stigma when going out with friends.

I've found that ordering something that has little to no calories or substance goes a long way to alleviate these fears (like tonic or sparkling water).

Because something like this still costs money, it helps convince the purchaser that they aren't appearing to be "cheap" by only ordering water. Topo Chico (a sparkling water similar to San Pellegrino) is a favorite among recovering alcoholics in my area.

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Pro tip: Club soda with a lime looks just like a vodka soda.

Works great when you're trying to keep a clear head at a party full of heavy drinkers too. Just make sure to take slow sips so that people don't catch you with an empty glass.

Club soda with anything, syrups, bitters, citrus, is the secret for a happier sober life. not to mention is usually free in bars. (bitters are technically alcoholic, so that is a personal choice)

Will seriously give this a shot! Thanks for the tip.

I see what you did there. :)

Ginger beer (as in fancy ginger ale) + lime juice + bitters, well-iced, is quite tasty. It's a Moscow mule without the vodka. You can mess with adding tonic water if you miss the vodka taste. A splash of Luxardo syrup, cherry juice, blueberry purée, of any number of other little flourishes (lychee is notably great, tumeric is interesting) can make it extra special. I drink occasionally but I also enjoy these NA concoctions. It helps that I don't have friends who make it weird for anyone to not drink alcohol when we're out or at parties.

Bitters (e.g. Angostura) is typically alcoholic though isn't it?

So is mouthwash but I doubt you put enough in to trip the drink past .1% ABV.

But this could be of importance for people stopping alcohol due to liver disease. But otherwise should not matter at all indeed!

I want the bitters so that I don't feel like I am cheating too much, now.

soda + bitters is super tasty. if you're in a fancy cocktail bar (which I'm not that often these days, because drunk people are annoying when you're sober), most good bartenders will be happy to concoct "something tasty" and non-alcoholic, too.

Something similar has helped me in not drinking pop/soda. I just get soda water and add lemons/limes. It has the flavor and fizziness of Sprite, just not the sweetness. And it's pretty widely available.

Best thing I did to quit soda the first time sround was get the True Lemon powder (it is crystallized lemon) and just drink that at water. I always found I would never use actual lemon before it became rotten, but that stuff is super useful.

I quit alcohol a few years ago. I wasn't an alcoholic or anything of the sort --- I just decided to stop.

For social things along the lines of house parties, I'll bring my own cup. I bought a set of vintage tupperware cups, and, to my surprise, they're always a hit. Its silly, but it helps. I don't make a show of drinking water, and most people assume the cup is filled with beer. When people do ask what I'm drinking, and I tell them that its just water, my assumption is that their assumption is that I was / am an alcoholic... sometimes I let it slide, other times I will clarify.

Over these past few years I've moved away from everything but one cup of coffee per day, and about 2 - 3 litres of water.

Regarding the stigma, it may be a regional thing (Vancouver), but most people don't care about what I order at a restaurant or drink at a social function. The strangest look I'll get is when I order room temperature tap water... but that's understandable :)

Since moving away from everything else, I've found that I rarely crave sugar --- and when I do, everything is far too sweet for me. I used to have a notorious sweet-tooth, but moving away has cured me of that. I also can't handle fizzy things anymore, which was also surprising.

> Regarding the stigma, it may be a regional thing (Vancouver), but most people don't care about what I order at a restaurant or drink at a social function. The strangest look I'll get is when I order room temperature tap water... but that's understandable :)

I think you might be right about that (Victorian here). No one ever cared what I was drinking in Victoria. Now that I'm in Europe it seems like people drink soda, beer or wine with every meal, even at home and they get weird when I ask for water. Like, they'll try to push soda or beer on me to the point where it gets uncomfortable if I say no. I'm still trying to figure a way to navigate around this, even as I slowly become acclimatized to drinking way more sugar and alcohol than I'm happy with.

Where you are, is the tap water any good? I often wonder if that is a major contributing factor.

It's weird water. It's very hard and there's a lot of copper in it. You get buildup on bathroom fixtures and it looks gross. When I first tried it I didn't like it... but I got used to it after like a month and now it just tastes like water. Doesn't everyone get used to it eventually?

The build up would be such a hassle. I've been to a few cities around the US where people go through bottled water like crazy. Delicious, balanced tap water is such a luxury. :)

Possibly. I wouldn't drink tap water where I live because its not nice (but other people do...) I do drink a lot of non-sparkling water though, even in Restaurants and I'm in Europe. Not all places will even give you tap water, sometimes you have to buy bottled water (which I often do anyway if I don't think the tap water tastes nice..)

Just a heads up that most tonic water is actually loaded with sugar and calories--nearly as much as soda!

I was pretty surprised when I'd realized this--G&T's had been my go-to "low-cal" cocktail for quite a while.

Ordering a club soda w/ lemon or lime however is a great move when avoiding alcohol in a social setting.

Avoiding alcohol is easy as long as no one pushes you to drink every five minutes when you obviously want to only drinking water. Drinking culture is extremely annoying.

You don't actually drink your decoy drink. You just hold it and maybe sip a tiny bit to make it look like you're drinking so people leave you alone.

A friend of mine adds salt to his glass of wine, to ensure that his decoy drink lasts a very long time.

I'm not sure if you meant to imply the contrary, but club soda isn't the same as tonic water--club soda doesn't have sugar added. So if you're yet to find a replacement for your gin and tonics, you could try out vodka sodas :)

> One of the more interesting comments in the article is in regards to the social stigma of only consuming water during meals - people who have quit alcohol for various reasons have faced the same stigma when going out with friends.

That stigma is entirely self-perception. No one cares or even notices what anyone else drinking.

This is definitely false. I've had multiple women tell me the dominant thing they noticed on a first date was that I didn't order a drink. Likewise, many people can attest that the social encouragement to get everyone drinking in group situations is very explicit. Shared consumption of intoxicating substances is closely monitored by everyone in the group, and is not same thing as the true fact that no one cares whether you have a brown or black belt.

I overheard one of my male co-workers telling a female co-worker that he doesn't drink. Her reaction was a literal "eww".

That's when I learned that - much like smokers - drinkers were a tribe.

Were? Smoking isn't very cool anymore, but drinking is still pretty cool. It's losing popularity in some circles, but in pop culture, rappers are still in the club ordering bottles, and not of Voss. Weed has a big chance to shake up the alcohol industry, because you can smoke like a Cummins 12-valve until you pass out, then feel fine the next morning. You also don't die if you have too much to smoke. It does have to do some work to get out of the goofy / high schooler / college bro image, but I think they can make it classy (esp stuff like vape pens...the whole blow torch + dabber + water pipe thing has pretty limited appeal because it's too involved and conspicuous).

Coming soon to a state near you.

make it classy (esp stuff like vape pens

I don't know. It feels like vape pens is one of the least classy things going on at the moment. I think the only thing that can make "weed" acceptable and "classy" is some variation on fancy edibles (or perhaps drinkables to bring the discussion full circle)

I am suspicious that smoking pot is just as bad for your lungs as smoking tobacco and we simply don't have decades of evidence yet. It stands to reason that inhaling burnt organics is going to have many of the same effects regardless of which plant is involved.

That's likely true, although with legalization has come the popularity of - and even preference to - vape pens and edibles, which weren't as accessible.

Not only that, some people leap to the conclusion that you don't drink because you're an alcoholic, and from there to the judgement that you're unreliable and untrustworthy. (Not that being an alcoholic makes you those things - but that's their perception learned from our culture.)

Another unhealthy thing about drinking culture is how it stigmatises teetotallers as some moralising oppressers (thanks Prohibition), when they might just not want to feel like shit in the morning.

There are plenty of reasons not to drink, though.

Maybe you're driving. Maybe you're on medication. Maybe if you're a woman you're trying to get pregnant (or already are).

Either this "if you don't drink you must be an alcoholic" thing is entirely American or lots of people on HN hang around with the wrong crowd.

EDIT: Also being "on call" is a good reason not to drink. Though if you need an excuse every time you go out with your friends, you deserve better friends.

Could be. The San Francisco drinking culture is pretty aggressive, but then again, so is NYC's, Lisbon's, Sydney's, or Shanghai's.

I'm in rural Germany. For 20-somethings it's perfectly normal to have designated drivers who don't drink, no questions asked. If you're a woman, most people will suspect you're pregnant but it's too early to be socially acceptable to ask you about it.

Transportation plays a larger role in determining "tolerance" for how socially acceptable that is. Urban environments, with their preponderance of cars for hire reduces the need for designated drivers.

I live in a suburban area in the U.S. and what you report is similar to what I've experienced, too.

It could also be that my social circle is older, and many of us are parents, so it's not as convenient to go out for a hard night's drinking.

Yeah, with friends who are parents the designated driver of the two also usually is the one who has to take care of the kid (especially when it's a very young kid).

But even when I'm out in town non-drinkers aren't bullied into drinking. If it's a party and they're not drinking (especially if they're men and thus pregnancy is off the table) someone will likely push them on it because it's uncommon but no more than vegetarians or anyone else with dietary restrictions.

However in that case "I don't drink because I don't like being drunk" or "I don't drink because I don't take it well" is a perfectly acceptable answer. Then again, a lot of the people I'm talking about are goths so straight edge / clean living isn't too uncommon.

> Shared consumption of intoxicating substances is closely monitored by everyone in the group

Get better friends.

Once upon a first date, I ordered a Manhattan and finished it, she ordered a wine and took 3 sips of it... I knew it wasn't going to work lol

that said, some women become terrible (in more bad ways than good) when they get tipsy... including my current

This isn't true. People frequently notice that I'm not drinking and comment on it.

sometimes i drink; sometimes i don't. when i don't, somebody will notice and comment about 90% of the time.

> No one cares or even notices what anyone else drinking.

Some care, but that's usually easy for me to get away from. They usually notice, and they usually go through the standard comments on it.

Unless, that is, you're dining out. I do drink occasional alcoholic beverages but the last time I was out to dinner with my family and the waitress asked if we'd be interested in drinks and I declined while asking for an additional water, she gave me a not-quite-concealed eye roll. The message was loud and clear: she wasn't going to make much off my table. I can hardly blame her. Tips are how waitstaff make money, and if you order drinks the check is going to be a lot bigger.

This is also why some people say weird things like you're "cheap" if you don't order drinks (especially if you are paying).

The non-alcoholic "evening out" drinks market is actually one of the fastest growing at the moment. Even to the extent that Diageo's investment arm recently ran a competition to find the best up and coming non-alc drinks.

> One of the more interesting comments in the article is in regards to the social stigma of only consuming water during meals

Wow this is insane. The culture I grew up in is famously health-friendly, so I've never come across this, but it sounds horrible.

I started drinking only water around high school, and the only reaction I ever got was "good for you, I wish I had that habit".

> Because something like this still costs money, it helps convince the purchaser that they aren't appearing to be "cheap" by only ordering water.

Interesting, you think that appearing cheap is behind the stigma? I would've guessed it would be something along the lines of anticipated reproach.

Ya, I think it's more that people assume that if you choose not to drink, you look down on people who do drink, and especially in one-on-one settings that makes them feel uncomfortable drinking around you

Reading the comments in this thread, can you blame people?

Ah yes, the concept of "anticipated reproach", where seeing someone do something that you deep down know you should do triggers a defense mechanism that makes you dislike them.

It's pretty easy to spot in people, and I go out of my way to avoid people that are that morally and intellectually stunted, so that may contribute to me seeing less of this reaction.

On behalf of drinkers, I apologize for the that a lot of drinkers act this way.

Personally I really don't care what anybody else consumes and I certainly don't look down on people for not drinking. People have lots of good reasons to abstain from drinking, and zero of those reasons are my business (unless they want to share)

I agree here.

I actually drink beer quite regularly, and whiskey when I am more in the mood (and in the money). (see: Canadian)

That said I rarely drink when I'm out with coworker, or I'll limit myself to a beer or two. I've never seen a real hard time from anybody, but I'm also a stubborn person when I feel the need to be. I wouldn't dream of giving anybody a hard time about not drinking and certainly would never look down on anybody for not partaking.

I think my only hope is that this view is reciprocated. I've found drinkers can just as often be condescended to for the indulgence -- and unless one really cuts loose and acts like an idiot, I think it's unwarranted and in poor taste... that it can be seen as an act of lower intelligence, or whatever you want.

Interesting theory. I think that's just a mental game though; I think of myself as "healthy" when I order water when we're out.

Most of my friends are also healthy individuals and will also order water though, so maybe it's dependent on who your "friends" are.

That's my thought, too. When I order water, it's almost like a declaration of a lifestyle - I choose to be fit, to stay healthy, and not to drink any of the substances that are an obstacle on my way.

I guess it's a question of company. If most of your friends order water, you feel a bit guilty ordering something less healthy.

I think that might be why it bothers people who some people do drink when you order water: they see it as you somehow saying that you're better than them by declaring your health lifestyle

No one can make them feel inferior without their consent. They are just projecting their own insecurities.

On the alcoholic drinks front: In Minneapolis there are a number of places where you can buy kombucha on tap, even getting a growler to take home. Lately I've been drinking a glass of that in the evening instead of my standard beer. It seriously makes a difference in my overall well being, especially now that I'm in my 30s and really feel the toll on my body when I drink.

Just order the most expensive steak on the menu. Problem solved.

Not all tonic water is low cal, a 350 mL bottle can be 100 calories from the 30g of sugar added.

I think your perception is stronger than the actual social effect - people who object to others not drinking are loud, but in my experience very much the minority.

I order water with my meals, because I want to taste the food. About the only food that is good with a soda (or beer) is pizza.

And only low-quality pizza at that.

> I order water with my meals, because I want to taste the food.

A lot of food tastes are enhanced with alcohol like wine.

same here, mostly because its a easy way to cut out a significant source of sugar.

I can't imagine what kind of food you like to eat then. The food-wine (or beer) pairing is an integral part of a lot of cuisines. But I can understand that it may be a very alien concept if you like to eat Mac Donald burgers or American pizzas.

I can understand wine or beer -- I was mostly referring to water instead of a sugary soda. But pairing an appropriate wine with seafood or a good steak does enhance the experience.

However, in my case, my schedule (and budget, and family factors) keep me from restaurants, except for an occasional lunch out at work. And then alcohol is verboten if I'm going back to work afterwards.

Topo Chico is the bees knees.

no-calorie tonic? Hmmm.

It exists, using artificial sweetener instead like diet soda.

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