NSA Hooking Up Ominously Named 'Perfect Citizen' To Watch The Internet | Hacker News Reader

NSA Hooking Up Ominously Named 'Perfect Citizen' To Watch The Internet

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82 pointsericalexander42 comments

Really though. If you wanted to claim that it was just for research, why give it such an inflammatory name? Compare:

1) WebReader is monitoring internet data. 2) Perfect Citizen is monitoring internet data.

Which one do you expect to be a robocop-like being that will kick down your door at night and declare "verdict: guilty, sentence: execution"?

Not that this doesn't reflect an irrational trust on your part of innocuous names, but really, why name it that?

The researchers probably did it on purpose. It's their way of warning us of what they are about to unleash.

It reminds me of the London "Secure Beneath The Watchful Eyes" poster campaign from a few years ago:

http://www.art-for-a-change.com/News/eyes.htm

Either somebody is having an Orwellian joke, or somebody is frighteningly tone-deaf. I mean, even "Patriot Act" probably seemed like a good idea at the time (as did my personal favourite, Operation Infinite Justice), but Perfect Citizen is just weird.

My favorite was Total Information Awareness, including the creepy Masonic eyeball: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_Awareness_Office

The Iraq invasion was originally "Operation Iraqi Liberation" -- O.I.L.

It seems there are more and more of these like the naming of the 'Patriot Act'. 'Perfect Citizen' is almost doublespeak at this point. What is happening here?

I think the people involved with naming these programs live in a very different environment and have a very different mindset than the people who think these are obviously bad names.

Can you list more than one previous example that fits this pattern?

I guess naming is part of selling it. If it was named as it actually is they would never pass.

Stuff as simple as the 'War on Terorism' when they are on our side in the 80's in Afghanistan for instance they were 'Freedom Fighters'

As far as bills:

- USA Patriot Act = Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001

- Operation Liberty Shield - http://www.dhs.gov/xnews/releases/press_release_0115.shtm

- Homeland Security Act - http://www.dhs.gov/xabout/laws/law_regulation_rule_0011.shtm

- S.A.F.E.T.Y Act - http://www.dhs.gov/xabout/laws/editorial_0878.shtm

- ...

It's to distract people from the actual citizen-monitoring program, which is code-named "Somebody Else's Problem."

Different kind of research -- probably a media and public reaction test. It is not that uncommon for spy agencies to release disinformation and test the outcome.

I think to the mindset of someone who chooses to work for the NSA being like Robocop is a GOOD thing. After all, Robocop catches the bad guys. If he comes and kicks down your door, it's because you were doing something wrong.

If you sign up to work for an agency like the NSA, you're probably doing it because you want to serve your country and protect it from the bad guys. You're not setting out to create some kind of totalitarian police state.

It amuses me, like in that James Bond film with Rosalind Pike, when Hollywood wants a secret organization even more sinister than the CIA they go for the NSA.

I've (obv) never been to the NSA's office but I bet it's indistinguishable from any of the established high tech firms, like IBM or Boeing or Intel or Raytheon. Everyone clean-shaven and wearing a crisp white shirt. These guys write programs and research cryptography. When they need some ass kicked they phone the Navy SEALs (1-800-SEAL4U in case you ever need them), then go back to complaining about the coffee machine.

From the government agencies I've done work in, I think it would be easily distinguishable from somewhere like Boeing. The government guys are the ones using Windows 98 and still trying to get the approval they started 9 years ago to upgrade to SE.

you might not be setting out to create a police state, but neither were the majority of people signing up for the Nazi party. Don't confuse sincerity with being right

That's not a valid comparison. Hitler and the top people were trying to create a police state. It didn't just spring up by accident from people trying to otherwise do the right thing.

I think he meant ED-209 from the movie Robocop, so not a GOOD thing.

Maybe they're just stupid, but then again maybe the name's intentionally creepy? Now it's registered in everyone's minds that they are being watched by Perfect Citizen (which is just a 'research program' really, wink wink). This could potentially cause mischief-makers to resort to pathological behavior to cover their tracks that can be detected more easily. Or maybe there would be a scarecrow-effect: people will behave because they know someone's watching them.

I wouldn't be surprised if they both know that the name is creepy and like it like that. If NSA personnel are anything like cops or Marines, then they have a sick sense of humor about their work.

For the same reason why DARPA has projects codenamed "BATMAN" and "ROBIN."

They're staffed by geeks and loons.

If you are an American HNer, please tell your congressmen\women to reform the Electronic Communications Privacy Act if you have not already. Your private information should not be excluded from 4th ammendment protection just because it's on the Internet.

If you don't know how to contact your representative\senator, the ACLU makes it extremely easy and can locate them for you and send a letter on your behalf via this online form:

https://secure.aclu.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=U...

From the website:

"Today, the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (ECPA), which should safeguard electronic communications records (like your email or chat logs) and the information you share with companies, is in serious need of an update.

The government should have to go to a judge and get a warrant that says it has probable cause to believe you've committed a crime before it can read your email, browse through your social networking account, or track your location."

If you're a US Citizen you don't have to worry about your information, since the NSA is forbidden by law from collecting information about US Citizens.

* I learned this while playing Splinter Cell.

The phone companies are also forbidden by law from collecting this data. That didn't stop them from doing so a few years back, and the Congress helpfully gave them immunity after the fact.

Legislative guarantees of privacy and other freedoms are no guarantees at all.

cough

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_co...

cough

It's also important to update the ECPA because it would apply to ANY federal agency. There were a series of links to HN where cell phone companies built backend web apps for law enforcement officials to track people's phone location without warrents as long as they told the phone company it was for an emergency. In other words, it was being used by police to track the location of labor union protestors in one instance, the article confirmed.

The law needs to be updated due to a multitude of issues, such as Amazon.com being requested by the Department of Revenue to give them access to customer purchase history. Even on a basic level, is this something that programmers or web developers on HN want to be developing or maintaining?

I do not believe that anymore.

If you are a US Citizen within the US talking to another US citizen within the US, this is true.

Should have called it Network Activity Recording and Collation (NARC).

I love this photo! Classic geek with braided ponytail dressed in black sitting next to a uniformed guy (we hire both!). Both guys have 17 inch (or is it 15 inch) monitors that are switched off. Neither are looking at their screens. A quarter of the screen real-estate up front is taken up by NSA logos. The intelligence sign on the roof adds a certain irony. We can only hope the whole set is staged.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE66807I20100709

When they film inside an intelligence agency, they either turn off monitors displaying sensitive information or show non-sensitive information on them (like the NSA logo).

Not to mention the large screen on the wall displaying a world map and lots of green text on black. It reminds me of a movie set. Given the very likely rapidly improving/changing technology used by the NSA, you have to wonder whether it's truly the movies basing their sets off of the real NSA, or if it's the other way around.

Why would they pick such a creepy name on purpose? Does no one high up at the NSA understand that this name is creepy?

Seems to have gone dead (coincidence?) -- related links:

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2010-07/nsa-wants-p...

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/200768/nsa_per...

I am not sure why this is a big deal. NSA has been watching the internet for a long time. A lot of those operations are probably shadowy classified ones. That kind of information is good for high level decision making and sensitive projects, but is not very useful in bullying regular citizens who might post something "anonymously" on some forum.

What the government needs is a plausable cover for "we see what you did there... on that forum ... on that date that is why you are denied this and that or put on some black list."

Another reason for using such an inflamatory name is to test public's response to such _kind_ of a project. Basically test the media and public's outcry level. Possibly in preparation for expanding one of their existing projects even further. Otherwise they couldn't have given it a more ominous Orwellian name.

They want to install snooping equipment on (a much greater portion of) private networks, such as the internal networks of major corporations. That's quite a large ambition.

Did anyone else read the words "NSA Hooking Up" and expect the article to be about something entirely different?

I did. Maybe I have been hanging around Craigslist too much...

these were both -1 when I got here, where's the sense of humor HN?

the sense of humor on HN is mostly found over on Reddit instead, (un)fortunately

I don't understand this either. I think some HN users think of themselves as 'all business', but humor is a useful contribution. We are humans capable (and in need) of a range of emotions and responses. Embrace it.

It only gets to be a problem when it elbows out serious discussion, which this did not. As long as the actual conversation gets floated to the top, there is nothing wrong with some jokes as you scroll down.

Did anyone else get an entirely different interpretation of the title the first time they read it?

404 ? Spooky.

This doesn't seem very sinister. Sounds like NSA providing managed IDS to their clients just like private security firms that provide managed network security.

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