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Comment by typpo | Hacker News Reader

I ordered the top-rated eclipse glasses on Amazon a few months ago and they were counterfeit.

If you put them on during daytime you can see indirect sunlight and even my kitchen light. They were shipped from China despite having "Made in the USA" markings and all the proper ISO certification fine print.

I haven't received any communication from Amazon, so people who haven't heard from them should not assume their glasses are safe (contrary to Amazon's statement). I contacted Amazon support and they were quick to initiate a refund. For some reason Amazon rejected my review warning that items from third party sellers may be counterfeit and explaining how to tell.

Here are a couple photos of the counterfeits: https://goo.gl/photos/1XRKw8KBgo3hjHx6A

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I too made this mistake and can see my kitchen light with these glasses. They didn't send me an email about the recall. Amazon will refund the money if you chat with them, but this in no way absolves them. I blame them fully. This counterfeit problem has been going on for years and they haven't addressed it, other than banning accounts of people who return too many of their shitty, counterfeit products. If people do get injured, I hope there are extreme punitive damages. Unfortunately, people will have to get hurt before anything changes. Fuck Amazon.

I really hope that some massive lawsuits finally put and end to this. Amazon deserves anything bad that comes their way. The amount of fake items I've received from them is awful.

Are you getting fake items when you order from Amazon, or when you order from a third party through Amazon?

It seems incredibly careless of them to tell people if they did not get an email they're OK. There's no way the impact from refunding everyone that bought any such product outweighs the coming lawsuits.

I feel bad for people about to be injured. But hopefully this will screw Amazon hard and make them change their ways.

Isn't it somewhat on the sellers who are willing to blind people for a buck? That's not ok even in China.

For a given SKU, Amazon commingles inventory, so who you bought from may not be the company who stocked the FBA shelf with the product. Surely Amazon can trace it back, but I think Amazon lost the "just a marketplace" defense a long time ago as a result.

Is the process of commingling inventory documented? That policy is slightly alarming. What would stop someone from sending boxes full of rocks to the fulfillment center with the sku of an iPad?

When you sell products through Amazon FBA (ship to Amazon, and they sell and ship it with the Prime logo), they give you the option to commingle inventory for most products if they have a UPC on them. They scan the UPC and then credit your account with 1 of the product. Your product is then mixed in with the rest [0].

[0] https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId...

They put some sort of deadly chemical in baby milk to make it more frothy, because that's a sign of more protein... they don't give a shit ("they" being some turbo-capitalists...).

No, "they" are not "turbo-capitalists." "They" are criminals. Or were, in any case. At least some of the executives responsible for that incident were executed.

You say that like there's a difference.

There most certainly is a difference. Have you been to China? These "turbo-capitalists" are all Communist Party connected scumbags that literally would rather see people die and make a yaun than worry about safety.

Parts of China is pure filth. There is no quality control until bad PR surfaces. Then it's all about saving face.

Here in the US, I think we've seen what the rhetoric of false equivalency gets us. Go peddle that somewhere else.

It was a more mundane horror. The melamine acts as a filler but also tests as protein. In the body it causes kidney trouble. In the end, 0.001% of the babies fed the adulterated formula died. (3 out of 300000). That makes being fed the tainted formula roughly as deadly as traveling 500 miles in a car in the United States.

So it wasn't a case of adding deadly poison, it was a case of adding an almost safe ingredient because the manufacturers needed to get their cost down to compete. Amazingly, it appears that melamine was even too expensive and they bought scrap melamine from the manufacturing process which was not pure enough to be used in plastics, beacuase it contained the actual kidney damaging chemical rather than just the precursor.

Lots of detail in the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

Speaking as somebody who has chronic kidney disease but is very much not dead (last I checked), I feel compelled to point out that the car analogy omits the vast majority of the people impacted, many of whom will have lifelong battles with cardiovascular health and increased risk of serious illnesses (e.g. gout). Kidney damage is permanent and irreversible. Renal tissue does not regenerate.

Just because only six babies died from acute kidney damage (according to the article you linked, which does not quite agree with your numbers) does not mean that's where the damage ends. Evidently there were 54,000 babies who were impacted severely enough to be hospitalized -- that's 18%, a far cry from 0.001%, and most definitely not an indication that an ingredient is "almost safe". Ignoring 53,997 of them makes your analogy incomplete to the point of being specious.

Amazon is already selling large quantities of food, food-supplements, and OTC medications.

I'm wondering how these practices have been able to go on without any reports of poisoning.

Ironically, Amazon requires additional verification and approval to sell in the Food/Grocery sections, but not Health & Personal Care.

I'm a lot more concerned about potential counterfeit medication than I am breakfast cereal.

You most certainly have to get ungated for H&B.

http://www.fbamaster.com/ungate-health-beauty-grocery/

If I recall correctly, the process for Grocery and H&B have the same requirements. I am ungated for both.

I have the exact opposite situation. I got 9 pairs of plastic framed glasses on Amazon. They seem really legit. Only thing I can see through them is the sun unless I hold a light source directly up to the lenses. Amazon gave me a refund and told me not to use them. I'm going to try to research some more research on Monday like getting a hold of the company that gave them the ISO rating.

This is apparently the source of the glasses although the seller was third party. I don't want to toss out perfectly good glasses because Amazon freaked out and banned anyone not on an exclusive list of suppliers.

http://www.prosolareclipse.cc/products_list.html

Is it really worth your eyes and the extra money to take a risk on the glasses that you're still not giving up on them and planning on researching them? Why not just buy one that you know is reputable?

At this stage of game they will be hard to get, many of the "legit" suppliers have 100+ minimum orders right now.

The Eclipse is 1 week away after all

As far as I can tell, they're basically not available at this point, even in areas far from the path of totality.

Where would you suggest one could get one?

Here in South Carolina Lowe's still has them in stock in the local stores, though only as part of some "Eclipse Kit".

I got binoculars, sunglasses, and a camera filter at Best Buy. I had to have them ship the camera filter but it arrived much earlier than they said.

See if any local welding supply stores have #14 or higher glass (or helmets) in stock. Some auto-shades can go that high, but many cap out at #13, and they're generally going to be >$300 for the ones that can darken to $14 or higher. If you end up using an auto-shade helmet you'll have to set the sensitivity and delay to their maximum values. Don't buy an auto-shade helmet that doesn't have these controls. It's also possible to stack a #10 welders glass plate inside an auto-shade helmet and tune the shade value to get to #14 if the auto-shade can't get that dark on its own. It should be impossible to see anything but the sun through the helmet + glass combination.

The default for me is definitely not to use them, but if there is info that will vindicate the glasses I'd like to find it.

Not being able to see through them doesn't mean anything, unless you can see UV.

Hey, since I have the same glasses, this is what search lands me.

AAS approved - https://eclipse.aas.org/resources/solar-filters

Someone on this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jmdo5jJIeQ) got this ISO certification - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5zcT8x8808gOE82aks3NUpPSTA...

Another product page - https://www.daylightsky.co.uk/collections/eyeware/products/p...

I think they might be safe enough.

Update: Looks like the seller "Tried and true products" is Joseph Harwood, who works at this company, https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09572536/officers which owns the trademark Daylight sky, https://trademarkalertz.com/owner/DE-BIRD%20LIMITED "Tried and true products" also sells de-bird products. I guess they might just be sister companies or something.

Update: Just make sure yours are not counterfeit.

http://www.prosolareclipse.cc/imageRepository/dff59a28-760c-...

As a comparison to the counterfeits, I took some pictures of my 'real' Soluna glasses, which I ordered a couple weeks ago from Amazon (and didn't get an email.) Also they pass the manufacturer's tests for verifying real glasses. 100 W equivalent CFL is very dimly visible.

http://imgur.com/a/5hMfu

I've been testing mine with a red laser pointer (NOT into my eye!). The glasses reflect a lot, even at a high angle. What does get through does not project beyond the filter itself, and is very dim, even in a darkened room (yes, I'm being careful, I know a reflection can cause damage). When I look at a 100W equiv CFL bulb, it resembles what you photographed. I've also looked briefly at my smartphone flash when in flashlight mode, it is quite dim and 'shifted' toward yellow. Just wondering if I can extrapolate these into a transmission spectrum.

I'm leaning toward throwing on an ordinary UV blocking pair of sunglasses on top and then limiting my time anyway, you can basically see the same thing with the pinhole technique. This is a risk I would take for myself, if my children were still young I would not risk their eyes, nor do it in front of them and tell them they couldn't.

Also, I can distinctly remember staring directly at the sun as a (dumbass) kid on multiple occasions for as long as I could stand it.

"Also, I can distinctly remember staring directly at the sun as a (dumbass) kid on multiple occasions for as long as I could stand it."

Yes, nature has made it so that we can't do that and harm ourselves, since the sun has been there for a long time. The problem is precisely that during the eclipse you'll be able to "stand it" for much, much longer. Eclipses don't happen often enough for us to be protected against them, and I also have to imagine most animals aren't as fascinated with them as we are...

The other issue is that your pupils are dilating with the darkness, allowing way more UV into the eye.

I just checked my "Soluna" glasses - I can see a high watt bulb in a lamp, previously I couldn't see any lower watt bulb :/

It looks like a lot of crazy people are going to trust their eyesight to a cheap piece of plastic from some company they've never heard of. Hope for the best.

No they are trusting Amazon.

*They are not understanding how Amazon resellers works

Which is very much the way Amazon set it up to work.

Hell, I understand Amazon extremely well, yet still got confused when a Prime item that wasn't FBA never showed tracking information (stuck in Preparing for Shipment), had wife email Jeff Bezos and not more than 10 minutes later the damned thing arrived. The whole time I was thinking "WTF, Amazon?" wondering why it was taking so long to fulfill the order, all because I didn't notice the absence of three words on the product page.

So yeah, point of the anecdote: even veteran Amazon shoppers can forget how the site works.

Prime item that wasnt FBA = MF Prime. Appears there was an error from the seller uploading tracking info. If that occurs frequently (more than 2%..? of orders) the seller will no longer be able to offer MF Prime.

Your email to Jeff had no effect whatsoever.

I assume your understanding of Amazon is from a consumer perspective only?

> Your email to Jeff had no effect whatsoever.

You're right, though I did get a $30 credit out of it.

> I assume your understanding of Amazon is from a consumer perspective only?

Yes, but I'm generally aware of how Amazon works behind the scenes as well. I know the difference between FBA and MF Prime, but even so I had managed to overlook it until the item arrived and my wife had already sent the email.

>some company they've never heard of

A company I've never heard of, but one that NASA specifically recommended as safe, and that Amazon was supposed to verify as the real manufacturer.

I am not an expert, so take this with a grain of salt: but you cannot visually check whether it blocks ultra-violet or infrared. So, this visual inspection seems bogus to me, since you cannot be sure whether all wavelengths are blocked.

Be careful!

This is correct. Visual inspection can't verify glasses, but it can identify clearly fake ones. Being able to see a house light through these glasses is a bad sign IMO.

This has happened for 2 brands of glasses I've ordered, 1 from Amazon & 1 from manufacturer directly.

Guess I won't be looking at the sun :)

Amazon should do a sampling of inventory and check whether they pass or not.

And it may happen to be that blocking the visual with the counterfeits also blocks the invisible wavelengths. Or it may not.

There should be some statistical evidence provided.

I did read from one of the recommended manufacturers that they tried to warn Amazon about this for months. They also tested them and they appeared safe in the tests they ran even though they were not legitimate.

But only Amazon knows what they have actually sold.

Heh, when I was a kid I remember our "eclipse viewing equipment" was a piece of glass blackened over a gas hob or a lighter. If someone's dad had access to welding equipment then welder's mask worked just as well.

I don't mean to say that people shouldn't take safety seriously - just saying that it's interesting how we used homemade solution to this and don't have any (obvious) sight problems.

Welder's mask (specifically a number 14 filter) is one of the recommended ways to safely watch an eclipse :)

Shade 14 is key, as common welding Masks are only Shade 5 and still cause eye damage if used

to be clear gas welding masks are 5, its more like wearing sunglasses.

arc welding gear is generally around 10-11.

many newer electronic helmets go up to 13/14 which is enough, you have to remember to turn up the sensitivity on the sensors so that its always dark. otherwise it will stay open at around 3-4

If yours also claim to be manufactured by American Paper Optics, as the pair in the parent comment claim to be, the (real) manufacturer has some information to help determine if they're counterfeit:

https://www.eclipseglasses.com/pages/safety

See the photo at the very bottom of the page for an illustration of the (very minor) differences.

Hey, I got some from APO directly -- I can still see my new, high wattage kitchen light thru them. This shouldn't be possible, right?

The sun still hurts my eyes if I look close to it so.. looks like I'm out of luck.

I think it's normal that you would be able to see the filament, no?

Top-rated on Amazon, and shipped from China on the same product seems kind of suspect. It's pretty rare for a top-rated item to be fulfilled by a party other than Amazon.

Any chance you can share a link to the item?

Here's a link to the item:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N9T9CZL

The seller that sold me the glasses is no longer listed. The only remaining seller is the actual manufacturer.

I have ordered these as well. I believe I have the correct ones. For example, I can stare directly at two CFLs and see nothing. Sunlight I can see the sun, and the sun bouncing off like a car window really bright.

The Amazon seller, GSM, assured me in a comment that if in my order history GSM Sales is listed I should be good to go, and it is.

I don't believe mine shipped from China or anything as they were ordered with other Amazon Prime products so I'm not even sure how that would work.

I can get why Chinese would manufacture items and then slap on a logo and resell it for much higher price, but what kind of person ships something that could blind a user for s couple bucks? Insane.

This is why I bought my glasses from an astronomical equipment store. I really hope this clusterfuck causes amazon to get their act together in regards to fraudulent listings.

> This is why I bought my glasses from an astronomical equipment store.

And where do you think that place got their glasses from?

This is my concern. Regarding the supply chain, perhaps the (re)sellers are not aware of the goods being counterfeit. Chinese manufacturers have been known to adjust product without informing the brand. Brands don't usually have someone spot checking every item that rolls off the assembly line. These glasses are one-off purchases and I'd assume demand is multiple orders of magnitude higher than normal. Corner cutting at the manufacture in China is where I'd start investigating. Again, more often than not, a Chinese manufacturer (boss) would rather deliver unsafe products and save face then to tell the buyer I can't make them. Especially smaller fly-by-night "factories" that are constantly appearing in the countryside or factories facing a giant surge in demand.

I could write a book re: Fake China.

I bought mine 4 months ago, and they looked right too, but I got an email as well. Which is fine. I ended up getting verified ones from my father-in-law's astronomy club.

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