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> I disagree.

You would, because you are taking things far to seriously.

Of course loving a child is just not enough. There are a monumental number of other things that need doing. There are mountains of books. A small post on HN isn't going to be the definitive "How to raise your child" post. It was merely a response to a person who is preparing to have his first child.

> Veruca Salt is spoiled by her parents who simply love her

No, they don't.

> When you say "it's rather easy" that sends up a few flags for me.

You are making this much more than it is.

Being a parent is easy. That doesn't mean it doesn't have it's challenges. That doesn't mean you can't mess up. That doesn't mean some days you can't help but pull your hair out.

Being easy doesn't mean can't be challenging.

It's easy, because it's worth it. It's easy, because even when it's difficult, it's rewarding. It's easy, because I love being a father to my son.

You ask me two questions of how I would handle things, as if their was a definitive right answer and everything else is 100% wrong. I know enough to know that their is no right or wrong answer. I can only say what I've done for my child when things arose, and I've learned from them as much as he has.

> It's easy, because I love being a father to my son.

I try to remember to tell my lads that last bit every day - but I think what you're really saying is it's damn hard but that even if it were to make demands of you that were impossible to fulfil you'd still keep doing it because you love your son.

Thanks for your comment.

>> "Veruca Salt is spoiled by her parents who simply love her and so give her everything she asks for."

That's not love. That's the point Roald Dahl is making (IMHO). The only family in the story that really knows and understands what love is, is Charlies' family. He is the richest boy in the world, because he has a family that truly loves him. Even though they are financially poor.

Love isn't about giving people what they ask for, it's about giving them what is best for them in the long run.

I don't buy my kids toys every time they ask for them. Not because I don't love them, but because I don't want them to take money for granted, and I want them to have a good life balance - because I do love them.

I agree it's not all easy, but I think a lot of it does come naturally if you're in the right mindset to let it come naturally. The most important things IMHO are to be relaxed, confident, and make sure you give the baby as much time as you can etc. babies and kids pick up so much on parents that are uptight. Relaxed parents = relaxed kids.

>> "Should I encourage him to play or forget the game (that I know he enjoys and has been nice to play together). If I get him to play should I let him win?"

I'd encourage him to play again and let him win a couple. If he's a bad winner (Gloating, taunting, saying you're rubbish etc), beat him brutally the next game. I remember my oldest had a year or so when he absolutely hated losing and didn't like playing games with me unless he won. He grew out of it though.

This is trivially true: "Love isn't about giving people what they ask for, it's about giving them what is best for them in the long run."

...but the more I learn, the more I find that my intuition has been often wrong on "what's best for them in the long run". Usually just in subtle ways, but sometimes in larger ones.

Being a relaxed parent is good advice, though that was more how I was a good uncle (but I'm learning to make adjustments to become a good parent).

It's super-important to understand that kids are not little adults, even once they start talking and can seem that way. So I don't agree with your game advice (I don't think the lesson you're teaching will be the one the child learns), but you're probably quite right that they'll grow out of it anyway. :)

And I'll stop there, because my opinions are based on tons of reading & talking with parents, but only about a year of being a parent myself so far....

Yeah I agree with those points.

I must admit I didn't read anything really to do with parenting before becoming a parent. It seems like there are so many different variables, every child is totally different, that reading books might even spoil things, and you might start looking to books for solutions rather than your intuition. (This might just be my personality - I don't like reading programming books either that teach specific programming style etc). But then I haven't read books on relationships either, but think I do ok there (My wife hasn't divorced me yet ;) ).

I can only say what I think worked with my Son when he did similar things playing games. But then I can't be sure if he 'learnt the lesson', or if he just grew out of it naturally. Seems like trying to play at around their level is best, although that's sometimes pretty hard :) If I had identical twins at least I'd be able to do proper A/B testing! ;)

The things I learn from talking with other parents (the smart/creative ones) and reading are usually ways to expand my possible responses to any situation, or insights into what's happening in a kid's head that we easily misinterpret. I totally agree, children can be dramatically different... but if you read books, go to workshops, etc. as ways to expand your options (rather than seeking a prescription to follow even when it feels wrong... intuition is still valuable!), you can get a lot of value.

I sat in a parents' workshop that covered how to handle the relatively-common "disaster" experience where a child throws a tantrum in the grocery store because the parent won't give them the toy or candy they wanted.

I was already opposed to any physical punishment (and I guess there's the option of leaving your cart and taking them out to the car to wait it out), and obviously giving in is bad because it teaches the kid that screaming in public works. But the other parents had tons of things I hadn't thought of, like:

respond with sympathy for the child's frustration -- they really want something they can't have -- and instead of being angry give them (within reason) space & time to express it

before the tantrum, respond to the demand by talking to the child about all the things you'd like to get, but can't

before even entering the store, have established & reasonable rules about what the child can pick out for themselves, i.e., one thing, under X euros, can't be candy if last trip they got candy

There were others as well that I forget now.. it was all food for thought, though.

Definitely interesting stuff.

To a certain extent though we get to 'brute-force' a solution. After the 20th tantrum, and the 20th different thing we try, we'll probably find something that works for that particular child. Of course it'll likely be completely different for the next child etc :) but that's half the fun!

>Of course it'll likely be completely different for the next child etc :) but that's half the fun!

And the same child the following month ;0)

Regarding your 15mo there's a good book called The Hungry Monkey. It's about a food critic who is trying to get his child to eat well. The upshot of the story, and from talking to various chefs in the story is that kids eat what kids eat.

It seems that the palettes of people continuously evolves, so even if he devours ice cream and doritos now, he may end up being the food writer for the Times when he grows up.

The key seems to be to present good foods to him. Let him see you eat it. But have something he'll eat too that you can bring out if he doesn't eat. It's more important for his development to eat any food, and humans are ridiculously resiliant to diets lacking in diversity (just use a multivitamin for deficiencies in key vitamins and minerals). Probably the only thing to watch out for is a LOT of sodium. But I'd be less concerned about things like fat and sugars than I would be for an adult.

My wife's grandmother has a garden out back.

I swear, the kid eats better then I do. He get's fresh pasta sauce all the time. >_<

Thanks for the advice, I've heard this before about palettes and agree to a large extent particularly as I've seen my eldest move away from some unhealthy foods as he grows up and also to eat several foods that I really can't stomach (eggs, mushrooms).

I confess it was a slightly made up problem intended to elucidate the point. He tends to have rice snaps for brecky with some fruit but his diet the rest of the time is quite varied. He is less accepting of new foods than his brother was.

I don't have a kid yet (3 months to go), but so far my take would be definitely no force feeding. I can't imagine a kid would go so far as to not eat when hungry? Would they rather starve to death than touch a vegetable? If you start fretting over food, of course you give the kid leverage over you - now they can refuse to eat to punish you...

And with respect to chess, why would you encourage him to forget the game???

Letting him win - maybe there is a better way, like correcting his moves so that he really wins? I only played with a guy who did that once when I was a child, and I was really impressed. Or instead of playing games, work on chess problems together (nobody wins or loses)? Or play together against opponents on the internet?

I can imagine it is difficult to find the right way to handle it right, but then again, maybe to play or not to play chess is not the most important matter in the world either? If you screw that up, it seems likely your kid would still find other things to get interested in.

This is besides the point, but you may try playing with some handicap. E.g. starting with no rooks.

Also try switching sides when you're ahead.