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Comment by scurvy | Hacker News Reader

At Microsoft, we called a lot of these people in Group B, "volunteers". They were with the company through the glory years and had great wealth. They just wanted to come to work every day because they liked saying that they worked at MS. The best response given when I asked one why they still worked, "Why would I spend time at home? Have you met my wife and kids?"

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When I worked at Microsoft, people joking called the Red West campus "Red Vest" because it was home to fun projects (like internet and Xbox) that attracted people who had vested enough MSFT options that they didn't need to work.

> The best response given when I asked one why they still worked, "Why would I spend time at home? Have you met my wife and kids?"

I am not sure whether I should fear sorry for the kids or for the father. Having father that jokes about not liking you must sux.

I've been in that position, and yes you are spot on.

I once interviewed with a team leader and two of his engineers. When I asked "What qualities characterize a valuable member of your team?", one of the engineers described how hard they work: they work so hard that the team leader cancelled dinner with his wife on their 10th anniversary so he could work late that night. The team leader was beaming with pride. I felt sorry for all of them and especially for that guy's family.

I dunno, you could take it lightheartedly. It's good for a relationship for the partners to have their own interests and have some time apart.

Unless his kids are more like him than you and can take a bit of joking.

Well that's a profoundly sad and depressing answer, hoping to never end with that kind of thoughts

It's a lighthearted joke.

Indeed, he said it jokingly.

I ain't buying it. I don't know the concrete person, that's a fact.

I spent my younger years in much more social jobs compared to programming in cubicles (thank the gods I work remotely for 5+ years now) and out of probably 200+ men I've heard joking about horrible wife and kids, I can assure you no more than 5 were really joking. And I don't mean offhand conversations -- I am talking about people who I've chatted with between midnight and 4 AM. (It was a job with wildly varying schedules)

"Joke" in the marital context usually means "I am too scared to confront my wife so I'll pretend I am light-hearted and make-believe I am just joining the popular marital jokes club -- while secretly I am hating every second of my home life".

Sorry for cynicism. It's what I found during my whole life. Anecdotal evidence for sure but, my $0.02.

My experience - also anecdotal - supports this. Only a small minority of people who 'joke' about their home life are actually joking. See also:

http://catb.org/jargon/html/H/ha-ha-only-serious.html

Yep. People use the joking form of expression to tell truths they wouldn't dare saying with a straight face while the other side knows they're fully serious.

Social stigma and dogma are to blame for this.

(Off-topic: one of the reasons that the love between me and my wife hasn't at all eroded -- it even got stronger -- after 3 years and a few months is that we're very honest with each other, even for the unpleasant truths. It's not about blinding your eyes; it's about being real plus being loving.)

Also, it's only been three years. Give it a few decades.

I had a failed relationship that lasted 8 years before. But I know what you are talking about. Time can kill love.

I do believe we're on the right track however. We are sensitive to the relationship killers and we are actively addressing them. Being inert is not our thing.

I think that's the actual reason for doing well, ie addressing problems. (Lack of) honesty is just one of those.

>after 3 years and a few months

That's not long at all.

From my subjective experience, most relationships' future is known no later than year two.

Of most relationships maybe, but not of most marriage type relations though. People marry and divorse after the 5th and 10th and 15th etc. year all the time...

That's a sad reality. If my father hadn't died 16 years ago, my mother would have divorced him.

People change. Sometimes a lot. You've fallen in love with a certain person and one morning, decades later, you suddenly realize this person is no longer with you.

I've also learned that a big reason why some people are workaholics is because they don't want to go home. Working late at the office gives them a good excuse.

That's a sad and miserable existence. :(

I'm one of those. I live with roommates who do nothing but party all night (it's school vacation right now here, and I've started working full time last year). It's excruciating. They don't know what I'm going through, act like it's not that hard waking up every morning at 7AM and coming home to a balcony full of people I've never met, having to have small-talk with them (or feel like I need to when I just want to go to my room). They act like they have it the worst because they need to go to school still and I mean, you're working! Ain't that the best?

I stay in the office until ~9PM. I go to the nearest coffeeshop to allow me to say "I've been working late, I'm tired, I'm gonna sleep. See you tomorrow". Well, that and I'm addicted to weed because it allows me to just not THINK about how sad I actually am. I'm not married, but I "have no home" basically.

That got way too personal. Contemplating on just not hitting reply. Still gonna do it. I mean, it's great for my professional life. It's not so great for my (mental) health.

Move house. I know, I know "It's not that easy I'd have to search for a place etc" but what if you were evicted tomorrow? What course of action would you take if you had to?

Do that.

If mosquito bites are a problem, you eliminate the mosquitoes - you don't skin yourself.

Back when I worked at Boeing, there was a story from a gate guard (checks badges of people coming in) that an engineer he knew drove up to the gate one day, stopped, shook his head, did a U-turn, and drove off.

He was never seen again (and abandoned his family).

That sounds more like burnout.

I buy it. Relationships are hard and marriages are harder, even for partners trying to make things work. It was shocking to me that my friends who are married also have their own struggles. In hindsight, it is normal. I used to think, "well, those guys should have a better marriage", and now I realize how difficult it actually is, and how widespread. The parents from Rick & Morty? Yeah.

My wife and I had tried a lot of things. What seems to be working is applying the practices laid out in "Crucial Conversations". That has been helping both at home and work. It isn't magic sauce, though it helps that even after all that, we still want to try. It feels like the eigenvector is pointing towards a better relationship.

(We both work from home).

Absolutely this. Crucial conversations should be mandatory reading for anyone entering into marriage. Fantastic book. And not just for marriage either, just good life skill on how to approach tricky subjects.

Go read it. Honestly :)

Agreed. A friend of mine's got married recently. That was the wedding gift I sent them.

Not sure I follow. Your reply reads like "marriage is yet another job, you must invest the proper amount of hours in it". If so, I disagree.

If not, what were you trying to say? And apologies if I misread your comment.

In general, I agree with the notion that relationships need "work" -- but in my case the "work" is basically not allowing certain relationship entropy events to ever happen (or to never last more than a few days). Me and my wife are real and sometimes brutal with our honesty with one another, we're down-to-earth and [mostly] humble, and we never, EVER, go to sleep angry at each other. That "formula" has worked wonders so far.

Thanks for responding. Not sure why you got downvoted.

I don't equate work with a job. By "work", I mean that you have to put effort into the marriage. A marriage is not the same as a romance, and should also not be conflated with love.

That you and your wife are honest with each other and make an effort at not going to bed angry with each other is aligned with what I was expressing.

On the brutal honesty thing: it sounds like it works well for you and your wife, and that is great. It doesn't work so well with my wife and I becuase we suck at crucial conversations and we are now just learning how to have them. One key thing about the teachings in crucial conversations is to recognizing the false dichotomy of speaking truth and having a good relationship. It is possible to do both. It sounds like you and your wife are already doing both.

I love reaching out when a possible misunderstanding is in progress. Appreciate your reply.

You're very correct about the false dichotomy -- it's happening way too often and too much people fall into that trap. It's saddening for me to watch, especially having in mind that me and my wife are doing both.

But as she would say -- "yes, me and you are far ahead in that regard but it's very likely that the people who just discover this aspect are far ahead in other regards, and we're likely very behind in those".

that's really sad. it's like they've been domesticated.

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