Elon Musk plans to build a Hyperloop himself
bloomberg.com
bloomberg.com
It's true that LA traffic sucks, but the only solution you need is good transit planning with existing technology. Throw in self-driving mini-busses (which I bet Tesla is working on) and you'd never be stuck in traffic again. Tokyo manages a population more than 10x that of L.A. with just good transit planning.
The problems with US transit are political. We have political problems that makes building infrastructure cost 10x too much and take 10x too long. Hyperloop can't solve those problems with better engineering. And if we fix those political problems, you don't need Hyperloop.
This is one of those occasions where a Hacker News appears to think they've thought of something that someone who's been thinking about this stuff for a very long time, and has the money and track record to back it up, disagrees.
You seem to have a very narrow view of the technology being proposed - the announcement is about New York to Washington, USA - but presumably this is a proof of concept build with modest scope.
> Tokyo manages a population more than 10x that of L.A. ..
> ... makes building infrastructure cost 10x too much and take 10x too long.
One should be careful with throwing around orders of magnitude claims willy nilly.
Tokyo's population is is just shy of 10 million, Los Angeles about 4 million.
I would say this is the only occasion that I read people telling others they shouldn't write their critical thinking about an issue because of the person who is behind.
Parent questioned viability of hyperloop, claimed that transport problems in the USA are due to poor planning and/or politics, and then made up some numbers around population, infrastructure costs and construction times.
My point was that Elon Musk thinks this is worth his time to construct. It's possible he, and the people advising him, have not properly thought this through. In TFA there's mention of some concerns by several other startups looking to build Hyperloop systems, who've raised some US$200m. It's possible that they, also, have failed to understand that all the transport problems in the USA could be solved by fixing 'the politics' and that Hyperloop is 'not viable'.
But which is more likely?
Parent is also comparing intra-city transport of two different cities, despite TFA being about inter-city transport.
Ultimately trying to compare profoundly different cultures, economies, population numbers and densities, and public transport history & infrastructure, is always going to involve some amount of hand-waving and number-rounding -- I just think hyperbole like '10 x this, 10 x that' doesn't make for a stronger argument.
I feel like this is one of those things that sounds like it might be true, but isn't. It's four hours from Tokyo to Hokkaido by train, f.e., and not much cheaper than a flight.
> I know that is difficult to imagine in the US, but please have an open mind.
I do try to have an open mind, despite being an Australian living in Australia.
My work requires that I travel regularly - most major cities in Australia warrant air-travel, due to the distances involved, but price and (in)convenience of air travel reduce the appeal.
Sydney to Canberra is a curious exception - at around 300km it's actually slightly faster to drive than to fly, once you factor in intra-city commute (to / from airports) and usual security & check-in waits. I'd love a high-speed ground-based option, as short-haul flights offend my green sensibilities, and as much as I enjoy driving, I can get more done, have a safer journey, and be more relaxed if I'm not driving. There is a train service - but it's not terribly frequent, and takes more than 4 hours (plus the intra-city commute, as for air travel). There's been talk of high speed rail links along the east coast (Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne) for decades, but still no actual commitment in sight.
I'm highly envious of what's happening in other parts of the world.
How dare I disagree with the Perfect Musk!
Solar City wasn't viable and had to be "bought" by Tesla to avoid bankruptcy.
> The problems with US transit are political.
Absolutely. There are too many people with vested financial interests who throw roadblocks to sensible public planning.
The irony here is that so much of elon musk and his company exist out of political "help". I don't know how musk does it but he has access to levers of power to keep himself afloat. The guy must have been a smooth talker.
That one's pretty easy to disprove...
A well run PR machine that keeps the constant hype going. The right misdirection at the right times (we totally need to worry about the mythical smart AI, oh but don't worry about the timeline or the dangers of self driving cars). The Hyperloop and Tunnels are totally amazing building blocks for Mars so we have to build them.
I think Musk is a brilliant guy, but the cult around him is pretty ridiculous.
At least it puts to rest the conspiracy theory that he came up with the Hyperloop concept only to undermine the current bullet train projects .
I only hope that if it doesn't pan out it won't hurt his other ventures too much, but I suppose he knows what he's doing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C5%AB%C5%8D_Shinkansen
It's long distance maglev project that's already under construction, using proven technology, and it aims to cut travel times in half relative to the existing high speed line.
I find this project far more exciting than the vague plans and ideas surrounding Hyperloop.
Obviously we put up with a similar predicament in air transportation, and for that matter train derailment and automobile collisions are a real and not uncommon risk of above-ground transportation systems.
But Hyperloop has this inherent issue that doesn't have any obvious solution. For transporting goods, it sounds fantastic. Move tons of cargo from SF to LA in 30 minutes, or from D.C. to Boston in 40 minutes. If nothing else, it would be great for USPS and FedEx. If it at least partially relieves the interstates of the stress and damage caused by 18-wheelers, another point in its favor (sorry, drivers).
Heck, I'd even be excited about wifi upgrades in the NE corridor.
Its not clear that any current pair of cities currently fit the sweet spot for hyperloop. Even if some did, its not clear a hyperloop could be built in time, before the situation changes and they exit the sweet spot.
Execution and timing will be especially critical to a successful venture.
Otherwise, definitive statements about small portions of a rather large and complicated proposal that don't provide evidence for their assertions aren't really worth reading. Sorry if that comes across as harsh (it's less directed at you, and more towards the situation as a whole), but this topic is so fraught with people making assertions based on rumors and assumptions rather than the actual data presented that there's a real problem wading through the misinformed to get to the useful information.
Or you can do a little googling. There's plenty of people that have jumped in with an assessment, and just about as many that have come after to refute some or all of their work.
1: http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/hyperloop_alpha.pdf
2: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSPi1JFx4_-Gz0Fm0qq2K...
Maybe they just plan to make the pipe sturdy enough that it wouldn't be a practical concern?
Will it last? Time will tell, but the trend today is to increase usage. The biggest complaint about the light rail is that it doesn't go far enough, though there are plans afoot to extend it over time.
That means that if you have some kind of obstacle on the way, such as a mountain, lake or even a city you can't easily swerve around to avoid it. You either have to anticipate your turn extremely early (huge turn radius) or you basically have to tunnel through it (extremely expensive).
For the same reason if you decide to pass over mountains you might have to start elevating the track well before you meet the slope because you can't brutally change your inclination from 0 to, say, 20 degrees brutally without inflicting a few gees to the passengers. So you'd basically build a ramp to smooth it up, which would also be quite expensive.
Has this been addressed?
I'm scared to fly as it is, but hurtling through the air at mach 1 there is far less chance of an obstacle than hurtling through a cramped vacuum tube at mach 1.
If I jump from an airliner into the ocean I'll naturally come to a stop due to water resistance but I don't think I'm going to enjoy that very much.
This is a genuine question by the way, I really don't know what kind of deceleration to expect in this situation. It just seems like in this situation the train would behave a bit like a piston meeting the rushing wall of air head-on. I can't imagine that it would make for a particularly gentle stopping.
An obstacle in the pipe
A misaligned tunnel wall due to shifting Earth
Other pods ahead of it
How is an obstacle going to get into a vacuum sealed pipe? Unless there are parts literally falling off of the pods, I can't really see this happening.
> A misaligned tunnel wall due to shifting Earth
This would most likely break the vacuum seal and be detected immediately.
> Other pods ahead of it
Seems easy to avoid. We don't typically hear about trains crashing into each other, so I don't see why we'd expect that to happen with pods.
That's a delta-v of at least 700km/h or about 200m/s. At a deceleration of 1g it'll take about 20 seconds, and an other 20 seconds to get back to speed after that. And 1g sounds like a lot for public transportation, especially for so long. Maybe they could rotate the seats to keep the acceleration downwards from the point of view of the passengers?
And obviously it'll take a lot of energy to re-accelerate the car, so you might want to store the braking energy to reuse it but I'm not sure if it's practical to store such a huge amount of energy so quickly.
The concept is effectively a series of moving sidewalk (like you see in airports) loops scaled up to run at 100+ mph, with its own ecosystem of shops, restaurants, inns, etc. They would replace the highways, and be powered by solar panels on the enclosure of the road. Getting on and off is handled by a series of parallel belts which go progressively slower at reasonable increments.
No need for "stops" where the entire system must come to a halt to disgorge passengers, no need for negative pressure systems, it could power itself (and surrounding communities)... But the impact of the roads "stopping" would be pretty major and widespread (if mitigable via multiple smaller loops).
[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/6kw70z/rspacex_disc...
I expect to get some hate for the comment as it's a Wall Street type complaint, but to my eye, it seems like these companies are becoming ever more similar.
On what basis do you imagine shareholders revolting? How would you imagine them doing so?
Obviously, Elon would be against this, I'm not saying they would personally be for this decision, I'm saying if the market stops being as forgiving to Tesla as it is, could a group not gain significant voting power and push this against them?
That may be strictly true, but I think most people consider Elon's ownership and direction of Tesla a big part of what supports the stock's price. Enough of Musk's loans for SpaceX are backed by Tesla stock for that to get a mention in their 10K
> Elon Musk has pledged shares of our common stock to secure certain bank borrowings. If Mr. Musk were forced to sell these shares pursuant to a margin call that he could not avoid or satisfy, such sales could cause our stock price to decline.
> Certain banking institutions have made extensions of credit to Elon Musk, our Chief Executive Officer, a portion of which was used to purchase shares of common stock in certain of our public offerings and private placements at the same prices offered to third party participants in such offerings and placements. We are not a party to these loans, which are partially secured by pledges of a portion of the Tesla common stock currently owned by Mr. Musk. If the price of our common stock were to decline substantially and Mr. Musk were unable to avoid or satisfy a margin call with respect to his pledged shares, Mr. Musk may be forced by one or more of the banking institutions to sell shares of Tesla common stock in order to remain within the margin limitations imposed under the terms of his loans. Any such sales could cause the price of our common stock to decline further.
The financial situation of his companies is very linked -- I personally think that was a big driver behind the purchase of Solar City since he had also used Tesla stock to back loans for that company as well.
SpaceX money, working out of SpaceX facilities, using SpaceX tooling department, the person giving the AMA was recruited by a SpaceX employee.
There's a fairly large number of legal entities making up SpaceX, but I haven't been able to find anything that looks like the boring company. Not clear to me if it's a seperate legal entity.
You can find a list here (with a few additions in the comments, and links to up to date sources): https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/4ifvir/spacex_subsi... I checked the sources, searched for companies with the name "boring" in California, etc. Nothing stood out.
He said, "No. To win the Nobel prize you have to dedicate your life to your work. I'm too busy for that." I asked him what was more important than winning the Nobel prize. He replied (without a pause), "Being a dad."
It always stuck with me and given that I always respected my dad, but never did the same things that he did, I never had kids (much to his displeasure). But I will never do anything like winning the Nobel prize either, because I'm also too busy.... with whatever it is that I do :-)
If you like what you are doing and believe in it, then that's enough. Really, that's more than enough. But if you are thinking, "You know I'm not so keen on how I spend my time here," then you are in the exceptionally lucky position of not being too busy to do something else! You don't have to commit, just go with the flow.
I spend most of my time watching TV and playing games. That's a lack of purpose.
Again, from my point of view, it's totally fine if you feel that what you are currently doing is not what you want to be doing. But it makes one wonder, "What do you want to be doing". I don't mean, "What do you want to accomplish in the end" (or more to the point, "What do I want to have done"). I literally mean: "What do you want to do?" - like today.
Accomplishments sound awesome. It's tempting to think, "If I did something important, I'd feel satisfied". But it's my experience that people who do impressive things like this are not actually satisfied with the accomplishment. It's not the having, it's the doing that's important to them. As soon as one thing is "done", then it's useless and time to move on to something else.
Some people like to have goals -- targets to shoot for. But some people don't like goals. It's not a bad thing. I don't actually know where this saying comes from (I think it might be Buddhist), but it's pretty old: If you keep one eye on the goal, you only have one eye for the path. Especially if the terrain is rough, or you feel afraid, or uncertain, it's totally fine to concentrate on your path (IMHO). Following that path, you will certainly go somewhere, even if you don't know ahead of time where that somewhere is.
I hope that gives a different perspective, even if it's not helpful :-)
yes, and it applies to me.
https://www.quora.com/How-can-I-be-as-great-as-Bill-Gates-St...
I love uMatrix.
media.autoplay.enabled = false
Cost per mile improvement, carbon footprint reduction etc. that has been scientifically estimated.
Also was wondering whether above ground system is cheaper outside cities than tunneling but i guess they feel that tunneling is cheaper if they get the purported 10x gains they want there
When you start adding all the safety features, the costs grow extremely fast.
Hyprerloop is not impossible, just very very expensive to build and to maintain.