Blizzard/Activision Removing Anonymity From Game Forums
mmo-champion.com
mmo-champion.com
Friends of mine who play one of the Blizzard games (World of Warcraft) and work at a (non-MMO, console based) game company don't understand that everyone else views gaming, especially PC gaming, as a non-legitimate hobby and a questionable mark against you on a job search, funding search, or anything of the sort really.
It's not like religion, race, political affiliation. It's a very legitimate concern, as there is a tendency for people who play these games to stay up much of the night instead of getting a proper nights rest. They don't understand how much they're giving up people's privacy; lots of users will stop playing these games for professional reasons. The bank vice president: Gone. The guy running a business: Gone. The advertising exec: Gone. None of them can afford to have this come out professionally.
Don't forget that your prism account is not anonymous.
Additionally, I think you'll find I'm acutely aware of how non-anonymous my posts are, and have always been relatively tame in my posting history on all sights.
It's not the acting out that will effect the professional careers of the people. It's the fact they have the hobby at all which is an issue professionally, especially in this job market.
Which is going to be hired most places: 29 yr old who has a reasonably good background and hobbies include gaming, reading and music, or a 29 yr old who has a reasonably good background and hobbies include reading and music? For many fields, the second is a more attractive candidate, and not for completely irrational reasons.
Second part of the question totally varies. I'm in agreement with you that the first is probably more attractive. But, there are millions of game players out there. Hard to think that all of them self-hate.
[1] example: http://classic.battle.net/war3/ladder/w3xp-player-logged-gam...
EDIT:
To be clear
>so presumably their RealId will be as well when the new system is implemented.
Is false on its face from Blizzard's announced policy. This, of course, eliminates the last concern of the parent.
Which is hilarious and retarded at the same time, cause I'm posting on the blasted Battle.net forums in the first place because of the game I'm playing (in my case, WoW). It should be in the context of the character in said game, not my real name. WTF does my real name have to factor in what I want to say in my realm's forums or something? And why require real names in subforums that are legitimately being used with little trolling that in-game GMs will actually tell you to go to to post about problems and such?
In fact, WTF does my real name have anything to do with whether or not I will troll? I can go create a new account with a fake Real Name quite easily, and that's only to troll on the forums. Trolling outside of the forums and in real life is probably going to explode with this change. Which I'm sure is great for Blizzard, they can stop hiring so many CMs to moderate their forums.
I'm all for people being able to use their Real Names to establish a little credibility, but forcing someone to do so is going to make things worse, not better, because the trolls probably don't have much to lose, while normal, sane people that give forums like this their modicum of value, will be silent.
They will know that this will have their real name attached to it. If they don't have discretion before attaching their name to a long rant, I have no sympathy for them.
You can find anything about someone with their name and a little bit of time, especially when that name can be associated with a character name that could be that person's online handle on other sites.
Take this response in the official thread (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=257123...) for example:
"Lol. This doesn't really effect me, as I know you simply can't track someone down by name alone.
Enjoy your tin foil hats everyone.
- <REAL NAME HERE>"
Just as an exercise I spent 10 minutes searching knowing just this guy's online handle that he posted as and his real name that he willfully posted in his response. Within that time I now have his real full name, age, home address and i know his dad's high school and graduation year. Pretty scary.
I don't mind this RealID change in-game where I can give out my details to friends I trust but requiring that I post on my real name for any random person browsing the forums to see? Nuh uh.
There have also been responses saying "Oh, just don't post on the forums any more". This is not a good solution because A) I pay for forum access as part of my subscription fee (otherwise you wouldn't have to be a subscriber to post) and B) I'm an officer in a guild and doing recruitment would require me to post on the forums to recruit people, thus putting my real name out there.
If they want to cut down on forum trolls they should allow people to set a Battle.net account nickname and use that instead. It would still be a semi-anonymous name but would cut down on the trolling because people wouldn't be able to create a random character on any random server and use that to post on. Everything they say would be associated with that handle and through that with their online reputation in the community. This may not cut down on ALL the forum trolls (really, using real names won't cut down on 100% of it either) but at least it won't kill the community that's there.
"It will be pretty intresting to see the profiles on facebook/myspace of some of the 'top raiders.' Maybe pull up some DMV records and see what kind of mount they have IRL."
"Finally I can stalk that pretty Draenei even more so."
"Solution... (I hope) I'll be changing my name in my contact details. Sure, the mailman might be smirking as I have to sign under 'Zortan the Mighty' for any Blizz purchases but at least some psycho won't be able to google me"
Also, not be able to change your name is pretty key to elements of their security.
Why? Just keep a log of all the names you used. Maybe even visible to the public on your profile.
Rarely will a person have their name completely changed.
She's probably a guy.
I get enough shit for joining vent and talking as a woman that plays WoW in anything non-guild related (oh, please, I still got shit there until I became an "established" player in the guild), I can only wait with joy!!!!! to see what happens on the forums.
I was quite happy that during my university years the gender ratio was around 50/50 in most of my courses. (I studied math.) That made for a better atmosphere than those computer science or physics courses.
I have been making my real name accessible on a lot of websites and I have never had a problem with people harassing me. In fact, I think it increases the quality of my interactions on average.
No. I have no desire for people to know my real name or real identity.
The negative stigma associated with being a company that thinks poorly of gamers and even more so of wow players is a terrible thing to have when looking for a professional employee.
=)
This company is hurting their user base in an effort to not have to do what every other forum on the internet does: Police the trolls.
I'd thought about buying one of their games this Summer (Starcraft II) to play with some friends, but I'd be hesitant to get the "brand" myself after this change
This is one of the best things they can do. Have you ever browsed the WoW forums? They are horrible. A new player can get destroyed. Their innocence ruined.
Their is only so much policing and banning that can go on.
The key part to their announcement is this: > All posts in the future on the new forum systems will be an opt-in choice and ample warning will be given that you're posting with your real first and last name.
Old posts won't change. This will only occur on the new forums.
I don't play WoW anymore, and I admit I got involved in my share of epic flame wars. I never hid who I was in real life, but still, this is fine. And no, you can't be associated as being a WoW player unless you opt-in.
So no, this is a good thing that solves a real problem.
This is a big loss for people who go to the tech support forums, bug requests, and do guild recruitment. None of those need real names, and I've almost never seen any flaming going in most of those threads. This is also quite retarded for realm forums where the context of your character is more important than your real name, so what now? Now you get to associate your toons with your real name, and well shit it keeps snowballing from there.
No, this is not a good thing because it doesn't solve the problem at all.
Well, if it silences people like you, I think it will do something. Saying it won't do ANYTHING is pretty black and white.
> There will still be plenty of people with fake Real Names and the Real Names of the people being billed (read: not the actual people playing the game, i.e. in the case of minors) trolling, except now they get to do it elsewhere with other players' real names.
You can't change your name in your account. Also, not having your real name will affect your ability to recover your account. Finally, your account name doesn't have to match the billing name. And, unless I'm mistaken, the account owner needs to have their real name their anyways, according to the TOS.
> This is a big loss for people who go to the tech support forums, bug requests, and do guild recruitment.
That's a valid argument, but one easily solved. Bug reports can have a different mechanism to be reported then forums. Tech Support already has an official mechanism for support outside the forums.
Guild Recruitment is another issue entirely, but again, this is something that can be solved outside the forums in a controlled manner, via something like the Armory. Whether they do any of this is another matter entirely, but these are valid issues.
> This is also quite retarded for realm forums where the context of your character is more important than your real name, so what now?
The problem is, you'd have people still getting quite aggressive and less than polite, throwing around insults and calling things 'retarded' and not keeping a civil tongue.
I like this part:
> Now you get to associate your toons with your real name, and well shit it keeps snowballing from there.
Like your entire post, you don't actually present why this is a problem.
> No, this is not a good thing because it doesn't solve the problem at all.
I think it will help with the problem. Even perceived anonymity turns otherwise rational people into raving lunatics.
Do you really have conversations with people and call things retarded, shit and yell at them, Jane?
Obviously thought up by a bunch of lifelong, male, game developers.
The latter would be especially ironic considering that the forums in question pertain to an escapist fantasy game in which people role-play as fictional characters.
Anonymous online forums can be found across the full spectrum of discussion quality - HN and 4chan are at polar extremes - so the real root cause of poor-quality discourse is something other than anonymity.
Instead of raising the stakes of participating in their forums, perhaps Blizzard should identify the internal cultural factors of the community that encourage disruptive and inane posts, and work to remedy them more even-handedly.
Sure, anonymity plus audience, I know. There are a lot of forums where anonymity is pointless, but when we're talking about a ROLE PLAYING game, things are a lot different.
Too many people avoid the forums for good reasons.
If they were only doing this on the general-discussion areas with no gameplay implications, it would be a lot more reasonable. To think you couldn't post on the forum for your character's own server under the character's name is silly.
That's exactly what they are doing. The forums aren't part of the game.
> Official tech support forums are...on the forums.
Currently, yes. Which has no bearing on the future setup.
> Yeah, not part of the game. Right.
I was unaware that after landing in a city, you logged onto the forums in game.
I just reference the ToU[1] and EULA[2]. The EULA doesn't reference the forums at all. The ToS mentions forums, but only under chat rules.
In the ToU, it references the Service and the Game Client:
"The Game includes two components: (a) the software program along with any accompanying materials or documentation (collectively, the "Game Client"), and (b) Blizzard’s proprietary World of Warcraft online service (the "Service")."
Reading between the two documents, in case the Service includes the forums, it appears it does not.
"you may use the Service solely for your own non-commercial entertainment purposes by accessing it with an authorized, unmodified Game Client."
So, the Service may only be access with the Game Client, which I assume the forums are not. So, it appears, officially at least, that the forums are not a part of the subscription fee.
Simply put, they are under no obligation to keep the forums up or provide you with forums to use.
Now, having said all that, I understand that part of why YOU pay is for access to the forums in addition to the game.
I think a smart thing to do would be to move essential support functions outside the forums, which it appears they are working hard to do with the Blizzard Support section. In fact, Technical Support might have forums, but their is also an official Technical Support channel here:
http://us.blizzard.com/support/index.xml?locale=en_US&ga...
It wasn't at all difficult to find.
1. http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html 2. http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/eula.html
http://wowriot.gameriot.com/blogs/Americans-are-bad-at-games...
What boggles the mind is that the employees are going to be using their real names to post. I have seen the hate and rage that can be spewed on the forums when a class gets nerfed in a patch, and let me tell you, some crazed teenager is going to go postal on a Blizzard employee because of this. After spending thousands of hours "ganking noobs" in Stranglethorn Vale, when little Jimmy gets nerfed, he might decide to take out his rage in the real world.
This move proved to me that Activision/Blizzard cares more about profit motives than the safety and privacy of their customers. This is really all about becoming the next Facebook for gamers. They want to create a social graph across all of their servers, and all of their gaming franchises so that they can map people to their contacts and data mine it for advertising. They've already announced that targeted ads will be displayed in loading screens on Starcraft II and World of Warcraft's expansion. This is the next step.
Unfortunately, Bobby Kotick and Activision have begun to destroy Blizzard. It is a sad day indeed.
>> Gaming is stigmatized by non-gamers
How do you figure? This sounds like it's simply conjecture or personal experience at best... in which case I'll mention that I know plenty of non-gamer professionals who respect gamers. Even if it is stigmatized, it's becoming decreasingly so as older gamer generations age. And the widespread immaturity made possible by total anonymity is a big reason people don't respect the gaming community in the first place. I welcome changes like this, which only serve to accelerate the de-stigmatization of gaming.
>> lots of users will stop playing these games for professional reasons
Why would someone who wishes to remain anonymous stop playing a game, when they can instead simply stop posting on the forums?
>> They don't understand how much they're giving up people's privacy
The "invasion of privacy" flag is waved nauseatingly often. It is not an invasion of privacy for a site to allow you to intentionally make posts under your real name. Blizzard is not tricking you, nor are they exposing your personal life without your permission. They are simply changing the dynamic on their forums to one that places a higher value on personal accountability. If you don't like it then fine, but don't accuse the company of being unethical. I'm sorry, but you don't have a right to be anonymous in everything you do.
People really need to get with the times. For the past 10 years we've lived in a world where people can Google your name and find anything about you. And for the past 5 years, we've lived in a world where more and more online services aren't supporting anonymity. That's the future, and yes * gasp * it's different than the past. Instead of complaining about change, why not adapt and take steps to control your own online reputation?
Also, if I ever stop playing WoW because of the Real ID changes (so far, they're optional, works for me), it's because I hate getting harassed for being female (and my real name is very definitely feminine). Not because I fear what I say in forums or in-game will have a negative impact on my life otherwise. I just don't play a game to be annoyed like that.
I normally don't care about my name being plastered everywhere, as I'm fully aware of how not anonymous the Internet is, but let's just say I don't exactly want Blizzard to go and tell the whole world my real name if I want to post cause those idiot 15 year olds in that retarded guild on my realm would probably go far enough to post IRL details of people they don't like for whatever reason in trade chat and more. I also don't see why that has to be the case, especially when they plan on introducing a big load of new features to help CMs moderate the forums.
There's a difference between keeping that information thinly shielded behind a pseudonym from in-game vs. screaming the name on your billing address for the world to hear.
But.....yeah, I ultimately have a choice. I have the choice to stop playing the game. Works for me.
What I am saying is that it's not an invasion of your privacy for Blizzard's forums to be based on RealID; they are not "bad guys" for doing so. In addition, many people feel it's next to impossible to have reasonable discussions in the forums as they are right now, where otherwise-reasonable people create anonymous accounts for the sole purposes of trolling and spamming.
Claiming that this will cut down on trolling is fallacious. The other features that Blizzard intends on introducing to the forums (voting and threading, etc.) and that they could implement (no posting rights outside of tech support for toons under level 10, for example) will do far more to cut down on this kind of behavior than forcing people to use Real ID. Because it's entirely possible to create accounts with fake details or someone else's details, and it doesn't even take someone to post on the forums to see details about people that can enable them to troll elsewhere and in real life (see: Blizzard employee Bashiok on 4chan today after he posted his real name). This just reduces the overall usefulness of the official forums.
>> Because it's entirely possible to create accounts with fake details or someone else's details, and it doesn't even take someone to post on the forums to see details about people that can enable them to troll elsewhere and in real life
Don't understand, I may be misreading this. Can you clarify?
That's one of the reasons I use my real name everywhere online: it helps keep my comments in check. Not that I'm 12, or spew (excessive) profanity. But I've become much more polite, and make significantly less 'me too' or memetic kinds of posts.
When the quality of discussion tends to be so low, you don't risk much by trying to mix things up.
There is no substantial difference between the level of anonymity of HN and that of 4chan as far as real life identity is concerned.
We all understand that if you include personal information or post using a known alias, a little bit of searching may identify you. If your IP address is made public in the post or email, it can be used to narrow down who or where you are. Even simply correlating known data, that is linked to your identity, with previously anonymous data can sometimes identify you. And the popular easy to regurgitate advice is that "nothing" you do is anonymous.
The fact is, if you're careful and there isn't enough of a motivation to go to the level necessary to identify you, you can participate anonymously in many discussions.
It's also possible to maintain the option of anonymous discussion in the future if people realize where it has value and make an effort not to give their privacy away voluntarily.
I has worked very well so far.