Comment by kator | Hacker News Reader

Comment by kator | Hacker News Reader

The article makes sense, that said I have two grandchildren that are five and three. They interact with ipads and phones like they're "normal" life. They talk to their Alexa's and Siri like they're people. They ask the TV to change channels and ask Mom why when they swipe the TV screen nothing happens.

My oldest grandson had the funniest argument with Siri, she kept saying I don't understand you and he would say "why you're talking to me just like I'm talking to you."

I agree we are still humans and no shocking net-new amazing multi-tasking or concentration skills will come out of the "digital generation". That said these kids are growing up on the shoulders of giants and will expect things to just work. If anything, that could make things harder because they may not want to learn how to make new things work.

All this said my grandmother lived through horse and buggy, radio, TV, Color TV, Computers and men on the moon. She used to say the more things change the more they stay the same. Because people are basically the same no matter when they were born.

> My oldest grandson had the funniest argument with Siri, she kept saying I don't understand you and he would say "why you're talking to me just like I'm talking to you."

Jaron Lanier challenges the Turing test original intend asking if we as humans are lowering our human capacity so machines pass the test. [1]

[1] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/434322-but-the-turing-test-...

The Turing test is a thought experiment, not an actual benchmark for a strong AGI.

Nobody has actually performed a real Turing test. A Turing test doesn't have problem domain and time limitations.

There is some interesting interaction between the Turing test and Poe's law. Put simply, it's hard to distinguish a malfunctioning AI from a troll and / or an idiot.

The original test did have a specified time limit.

im probably being a Luddite here but I saw my friend's kid talking to alexa and I couldn't help but think it won't be too long until kids don't need parents much. if they have a question they'll ask siri. if they want help with their homework they'll ask okgoogle. if they want someone to read them a story they'll ask alexa.

on the one hand that will be great. a partner who never gets tired no matter how many questions you ask.

on the other hand it's a brave new world. especially when as the computer gets better they might get used to the partner that always does there requests and upset with the real people who dont ?

I'm sure it will all be fine somehow.

These things aren't what define a parent.

I agree but I can't help see the parallel to "these things are not what is AI.

It started with, "surely, if the computer can beat a human in chess, that must mean it's intelligent". Then went from there.

As a parent who's was "Why"ed to death by two curious kids in the pre-google era, I can tell you that I would have killed for "someone" to take on a part of that burden! ;)

>>I couldn't help but think it won't be too long until kids don't need parents much

I think you meant need as pure "question answerers," but we do a few things for the kids that Siri and Alexa wouldn't have the stomach or, for that matter, the arms for. Oh, also: love!

Becausing back when you are why'ed is a really fundamental part of human parenthood. I wouldn't have missed for anything.

When the answer can't be found perhaps the voice assistant can say "Because I said SO!".

I found giving an answer that has some kind of final or really helpful/obvious consequence helps a lot. A reason instead of an explanation (that's tricky, don't mock your child).

Eg:

Instead of:

- Why does it rain ?

- Well, you see, there's that thing about clouds that goes through different pocket of air and...

Try:

- Why does it rain ?

- To make vegetables grow :).

YMMV

> if they have a question they'll ask siri. if they want help with their homework they'll ask okgoogle. if they want someone to read them a story they'll ask alexa.

This has almost always been the case. Have you met a single millennial?

I'm confused by this. People tell me I'm one of these "millennials". I think I was 26 when the first, pretty useless, version of Siri came out, and 29 when Alexa came onto the scene. I can't mesh that with it having "always been the case" that millennials asked Siri and Alexa for help with things.

I think different people consider millennials to consist of different age ranges. Mostly, I see people use the term to mean "young adults of today", primarily people in their 20s.

After some quick searching, it appears the starting birth year for millenials can be considered to go as far back as 1977. Having personally been born in 1980, I've never characterized myself as what I hear a "millennial" to be, and the people I know in my age range feel the same way about themselves.

Yeah, we older millenials are super salty about being labeled as such. But professional demographers and sociologists say you are a millenial (at least some of them, 1980 is borderline), so to the extent that these are defined groups that mean anything, you are one.

I suspect that not wanting to be labeled a millenial is one of the defining characteristics.

> I've never characterized myself as what I hear a "millennial" to be

I suspect this is true for literally everybody. Which is because these characterizations are reductive nonsense: people contain multitudes.

How true. I'm a boomer. I'm told that I'm responsible for many ills, hold certain political views, and can't use a computer. None of which are true, but here we are. My generation had the sexual revolution, I'm so left I make Europeans blush, and I used my first computer in the early seventies.

But, people like their boxes and generalizations, or so it seems.

The voice interaction aspect may be new, but books and later the web were my go-to sources when I grew up, not my parents.

So to me it does feel like those "new" problems are not so new after all. Technology is just changing the mode of interaction, not the fundamental dynamic that lets kids entertain themselves without their parents.

Sure, I agree! Is that the point my parent comment was making? I can't find this point in that comment.

This reminds me of "A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer", which is used to train the protagonist, in The Diamond Age.

If your friend can be replaced by an update to Alexa, then I think maybe something is very wrong with your friend, no offence.

There's more to parenting than on-demand answers to questions, and obedient execution of verbal commands.

It's a bit late for that. Education used to be something parents and close community did. Now parents don't teach much to their children, and most of education is done by institutions of the state (or church in some places).

This was done to avoid heresy, insurrection and rebellion, but it has wider implications.

Computers are just another tool in this change. In fact, computers could even help parents to regain a bit of the privilege to provide education to their children.

> In fact, computers could even help parents to regain a bit of the privilege to provide education to their children.

Or let Bezos dictate which views your child acquires.

It is not logical to believe all computers are controlled by Amazon.

But if it helps to ease your cynical concerns, you can donate money to Wikipedia.

As someone who more or less grew up with the web (first computer at 12, finished "High School" in 2012, nearly 23), I can tell you that we've already been living in it.

There was a lot of questions growing up about particular hobbies for example, that I would just find online as no one in my small town would have any similar interests.

Same deal for homework eg; Algebra that my parents weren't able to answer, as neither had finished high school themselves nor having gone on to take STEM-ish careers.

Learning how to properly search is pretty much one of the most valuable skills you can have!

I think talking to Alexa is wonky on the surface, sure, but it's just changing the way in which you access the same information.

I'm more or less in the same age bracket as you (graduated high school in 2015) and your spot on about the utility of computers for research and the importance of learning how to effectively use a search engine (this is a skill most of my peers lack).

That said, there's a huge difference between getting your first computer at 12 and getting your first computer at 3 (or at least largely unmonitored access to one). It remains to be seen how interaction with technology at such a young age affects social development and maturity, whereas technology's impact on our lives occurred after that development had mostly finished.

"I think we'd better get downstairs before those kids get engrossed with those damned beasts again."
Just then they heard the children calling, "Daddy, Mommy, come quick -quick!"
They went downstairs in the air flue and ran down the hall. The children were nowhere in sight. "Wendy? Peter!"
They ran into the nursery. The veldtland was empty save for the lions waiting, looking at them. "Peter, Wendy?"

The door slammed.

- Ray Bradbury, The Veldt[0]

[0] http://www.veddma.com/veddma/Veldt.htm

You might find Harlow experiments interesting http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~adoption/studies/HarlowMLE.htm

There's far more to nurturing children that what we have been able to pinpoint so far (as parents and as scientists).

It takes a village.

Watching John with the machine, it was suddenly so clear. The Terminator would never stop. It would never leave him. It would never hurt him, never shout at him, or get drunk and hit him, or say it was too busy to spend time with him. It would always be there. And it would die to protect him. Of all the would-be fathers who came and went over the years, this thing, this machine was the only one that measured up.

Sorry, our post just reminded me of the scene :)

Ah. Very apt. That's actually one of the most under-rated lines from the film and such a great scene. For some reason, I had a strong emotional reaction reading this.

> on the one hand that will be great. a partner who never gets tired no matter how many questions you ask.

Reminds me of the movie, Her

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