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Comment by ApolloFortyNine | Hacker News Reader

I played football in up through High School, and I'd definitely say I would be a different person today if I hadn't gone through it. The camaraderie amongst the team is unique amongst every experience I've had since. Plus working through something so challenging definitely provides a great level of satisfaction.

I like who I am today, even if I might have a higher risk for any symptoms, and I believe football played a key part in my development.

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Don't you think any kind of challenge in a team setting would have provided the same growth without the side effect of possibly irreversible brain damage?

I'm happy you like football, but I don't think you can say it forms character in a unique way, it's just a team sport and there's tons of team sport where hitting people with your head aren't the bread and butter of it.

Try volleyball, if you have to fuck up something I would rather go with the knees and hips rather than the head.

"Just a team sport"

No other sport works you as hard as Football does. Between three-a-days (practicing 8am to 8pm) for weeks, and each practice primarily consisting of basically playing football (running play after play, at 100%, for practice, with tackling), Football works you harder than any other sport.

I'll get told by some this is just my opinion, but the vast majority of other sports are not shear tests of strength the same way Football is. If you're a lineman in football, every play is practically you bench pressing another player your size over the field. And it's the same for every lineman, and anyone on offense has to do the same.

So yes, I believe Football works character differently due to the sheer difficulty of the sport physically.

For swimming at a college level, we got up at about 4:30, swam 5-7, lifted 7-8, then classes, then swam 4-6, then stretches/bodyweight exercises.

This was while classes were in session.

During the winter training trip, we would do the same, but also swam sprints in the middle of the day.

Sometimes other teams, including the football team, would try to use the pool for off-sport workouts. We would crush them. But when we ran, they would not outrun us.

And that's just one sport I have personal experience with. Please do not discount what other athletes are doing--any sport is an intentionally competitive environment, everyone is looking to gain advantage: that push to go harder is present and is not exclusive to football.

Cardio vs strength training.

Also, hitting each other repeatedly. Or, well, directly competing at all with someone else.

Not really worth arguing if you don't see it.

>Football works you harder than any other sport.

You might change your opinion after a week playing Water Polo. You've got the same level of energy required for sprints and man-handling your opponents as football, but then throw in the added bonus of getting repeatedly squeezed/kicked in the groin (on purpose!), scratched all to hell (no pads!), and the constant attempts at opponents trying to (almost) drown you. You don't just have to be physically strong to play, you've got to be mentally iron-willed to want to get in the pool with the other lunatics.

There is a camaraderie born only of shared violence that seems to be expressed by football players, soldiers, mobsters, that might be hard to replicate in volleyball. I can't claim any firsthand knowledge of it however.

> Don't you think any kind of challenge in a team setting would have provided the same growth without the side effect of possibly irreversible brain damage?

Different sports are different. I don't think that's hard to believe.

I ran track and cross country for 9 years. Those are team sports but there was no camaraderie. People were friendly, sure, but there was no team spirit. There was more camaraderie in the half a year I spent on a rowing team than I experienced in either of those sports.

Sure, but I think the comparison would be easy to make among sports with a similar team dynamic, like between football and soccer, rugby, basketball, etc. Players of the latter sports train and practice just as much (if in different ways) as football players, and the game dynamics of all of them require coordination and teamwork to a similar enough degree that any differences aren't earth-shattering.

It's a bit ridiculous to me to suggest that there is nothing like football when it comes to training, teamwork, and camaraderie. That's easily not true.

Feeling camaraderie is not exclusive to football. I felt that same thing being in the marching band and playing soccer. It is a good thing for young people to belong to a team and work together to achieve a common goal.

Because it's possible to experience the benefits of camaraderie without the risks of brain damage, it's sensible to question if football is too dangerous for children.

I made a response answering this over here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14867607

Basically, Football works you harder physically (strength), which makes the camaraderie that much stronger (you all overcame the same adversity).

Your core argument that football builds stronger camaraderie [than other sports or team-like activities] is unsupportable. There is no reason to believe that football is the key ingredient to lasting feelings of camaraderie. What if we just put high school students through a marines-style boot camp?

Also, everyone from the marching band still remembers marching through Disney World in 100+ degree heat in full marching uniforms. It was tough and it was a memorable bond we all shared.

Physicality is just one aspect of teamwork and camaraderie. Ever played in a (good) band? The levels of shared precision and intimacy required to synchronize on complex pieces of music for hours is difficult to put into words and certainly not to be taken lightly as far as camaraderie goes, you have to rely on the competence of your bandmates on a level that is relatively uncommon compared to most sports.

I got the same benefit from joining science club!

Minus the brain damage.

Or not, you cannot know until you try both.

You should know the scientific method from the science club. ;)

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