Ask HN: Lack of self-discipline driving me hopeless. Tips? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Lack of self-discipline driving me hopeless. Tips?

132 pointsDamnit106 comments

Dear Hacker News,

I am a longtime member here. I would never think I would be one of those writing this but here it goes.

I have a terrible problem with focus and discipline. I simply cannot manage to achieve both for any prolonged period of times. For the last five years, I have tried very conciously to become disciplined and no matter what, after a few days or weeks at best, the pattern breaks and I am back to my unproductive, terrible self.

I also cannot really enjoy or focus on anything or anyone for too long. This is the most scary part. I cannot be in a relationship for more than a week or two before becoming very ambivalent after the initial high. I cannot continue working on projects--all of them I would say I enjoy--for more than a few weeks at most.

I am 23 and finishing up school(took some time off to do failed startup). Much of this could be accepted during my teen years and 20s. People close to me respect me for my passion, for my entprenreurial spirit and all of those things. They barely know this miserable side of me and those that do don't know much else to help me.

I always thought I knew what I loved(startups). At this point though, anything I love seems to have become very irrelavant. I make new friends and before I know it, I am avoiding them. I want to socialize but before I know it, I'm avoiding it. I want to work on my startup but before I know it, my mind is just in a confused weird daze. I have no idea what is wrong with me. I have so many things to be greatful about. I am 100% confident that I am holding myself back. And yet, I don't know how to get out of this shitless pattern of life.

After a million self-help programs and motivation books that haven't been of much help, I thought I'd post this on HN.

More recently I have started reading up more on suicides. I am too weak to ever attempt it. But I also never thought I'd ever be so tired and hopeless in life to be googling something so sick.

Thanks!

-A dude

View on HN

Dude, you don't have ADD. You aren't bipolar. You're a normal young man -- or at least within the range of normal for young men. Forget therapists. Forget drugs. Forget everything you've been told, and join the Army. Seriously. Trust me. Yes, yes, I know that you don't know me. But you're describing me in this post, and a lot of guys I knew back when I was in: Smart guys, but bored. Can't concentrate in class. Can't suffer fools. Takes a lot to motivate them. They need to be passionate about something before they will even try it, and then they try it, and things don't happen as quickly as they thought they would, and they get discouraged, and their minds wander. And then they try something else, half-way. Fuck that shit. Become a marine. Try to become a paratrooper. Do something physical that attracts a better class of recruit, and don't stop till you get there. It will teach you to finish things that you start. And along the way you'll probably be doing more good for the world than any ten Peace Corps volunteers. Yes yes, I saw that Collateral murder video. Wikleaks is a bunch of liars. When you finish, you'll have learned an important lesson. Which is that more than anything else, winning requires that you show up.

After that, if you still feel useless, you will have plenty of time to kill yourself.

"you will have plenty of time to kill yourself"

And plenty of opportunities, too, I suppose.

Isn't there another way than becoming a soldier? I was going to suggest going traveling, for example a hike over several weeks. That would also be physically demanding and good for focus.

I tend to agree with the "normal young man" thesis.

A long hike might work. But whatever he does, he needs to pick something that is achievable, and that he'll finish. I worry that traveling might not provide the structure he may need.

Dude, you don't have ADD. You aren't bipolar. [..] join the Army [..] you'll probably be doing more good for the world than any ten Peace Corps volunteers. Yes yes, I saw that Collateral murder video. Wikleaks is a bunch of liars.

Another perfect diagnosis, Drill Sergeant Schoeneman.

When I want to hear your opinion, I'll tell you what it is :) Holy crap, I'm reading your "Beginning Ruby" book right now. How random is that?

I can say that without question the Marines changed my brother for the better. Much, much better. From lost and aimless to driven and motivated.

I assume he still has all of his limbs?

Good for him. If you get a chance thank him for his service for me.

I have a similar story as the OP, and have given serious thought to enlisting.

There's one problem: I don't want to get shot or blown up. Joining the army would mean going where I'm actively wanted dead. Am I wrong?

The OP specifically mentioned that he was looking at suicide sites. Joining the military is by no means a tactic for suicide, but his problem is that he's afraid of living and of making the wrong choices, not that he's afraid of dying. The military isn't for everyone, but can be a rewarding career for many more people than think it can.

What would you recommend for someone sufffering PTSD?

There is no "one fits all" solution. Even if Army has worked for you, it doesn't mean it'll work for everybody else.

For instance, Army would be the worse recommandation you could give to hypersensitive folks, who are paying their exceptionnal creativity with almost perpetual depression. They are invaluable assets to the society if they manage to find the right channels to express themselves. The training of an infantry man seems a wasteful pathway to this kind of personnality.

Army has also the tendency to reveal great men only under great circumstances, when bureaucracy is eventually bypassed because of the dramatic scale of the events, and everything has to be rethinked. Napoleon arised during the French Revolution era, Churchill and De Gaulle during World War 2, but they would never have without the right context.

My cousin went to Irak and he doesn't think about it as a worthwile cause today. He left the ranks as soon as he could, and he is glad to be back in the civil life where he finds the opportunities to grow as a human being much more interesting, at least in our current times.

I'm only bringing this up because no-one did but read up on bipolar disorder and see if any of it clicks with you.

There's a wide spectrum of bipolar disorders (it's not all just super mania and super depression) and what you're saying sounds like it could be connected to this (the flip flopping, the doing OK one moment, not so good the next). Of particular interest should be bipolar II: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_II_disorder

Bipolar is, IMHO, a significantly bigger deal than having ADD or a mere lack of willpower. It is a commonly misunderstood condition and one that a lot of normal advice regarding depression or personality disorders will not help. Unfortunately it can also be a very difficult condition to "admit" you have, especially to yourself, so it's worth at least reading up about it ASAP "just in case."

Disclaimer: I have a bipolar disorder that's self managed (no medicines) and over the last few years I've come up with a lot of techniques and tricks to take advantage of it and reduce its negative effects. Before that, though, things were.. not so good :-)

Yeah I've read up on it and it's one of my default "jokes" to new friends("dude! you've no idea how bipolar I am")--only they don't know that I am not really joking.

Still I have a lot of stigma about officially getting tested for this stuff.

Funny this should come up because I'm also a 23 year old university student (undergrad) and I started medication for bipolar II a week and a half ago.

I've had similar problems with focus and discipline. I've tried alleviating them by exercising (working out with the ROTC at 6 AM), eating well, making important commitments, doing Buddhist mindfulness exercises, listening to Eckhart Tolle, writing myself a contract that I signed in front of my friends/classmates, trying to create a startup with some good friends, and many other things that typically ended in (painful) failure. I had successes here and there, but the mental effort required to hang on until the end was often huge.

I have the tendency to make commitments and create relationships when I'm in one of my highs, and then proceed to fumble them when I inevitably reach a low. I dropped 2 semesters of college before I looked for professional help.

I started by seeing a therapist, not an MD. I found the sessions beneficial and they helped me get through a rough patch, but after two months things weren't really coming together. At my therapist's discretion, I saw a psychiatrist. I told him my situation in it's entirety. I didn't let myself think about trying to save face. I told him the grittiest details if I thought they were important for him to understand what I was going through.

I definitely had strong misgivings before making that step. For me the worst was "What if everyone goes through the same difficulties, and I'm just weak and cowardly?" However, my track record clearly showed I needed help. It was mostly a matter of allowing myself to be humble enough to accept it.

After only a week and a half of taking Seroquel, it's hard for me to say how it's going and where it's going to take me. Early though it is, I've noticed a change for the better. I like to think it's a temporary solution, like the way that you would put a tarp over a hole in your roof before you actually get it repaired.

Psychiatrists and therapists see people for things like this all the time. It's familiar territory for them. I could have saved myself a lot of heartache if I'd gotten professional help sooner.

Best of luck

- Another dude

Same here but with Olanzapine + Valproic Acid + lithium + Paroxetine - 2 years in age + a suicide attempt.

There really isn't testing per se for this sort of stuff... its more like you make a doctors appointment, meet with them 1-4 times to given them your personal history of all relevant stuff, and then theres a subsequent discussion about viable courses of action. (Is there really a stigma in talking to a doctor in general?)

If its just a case of having trouble doing the initial jumpstart of getting started looking into stuff, ask one of your friends who you're close to and comfortable being open with to help you get the ball rolling on looking into such, or just make yourself commit to at least making a appointment with your general practitioner.

(getting around irrational social anxiety issues which can act as obstacles is hard, and apparently the best adaptive approach is to reframe the ominous task by breaking it into lots and lots of smaller steps, and forcing yourself to only think about the current step and never about later steps, rinse and repeat)

It took three places coming to the same diagnosis for me to really accept I had bipolar disorder . I was convinced I was just hyperactive and just wanted an RX for Ritalin. Even now, I still can't bring myself to take the mood stabiliser meds (lithium, valproic acid). But seeing a psychologist has been one of the best things I've ever done for myself.

The thing is, bipolar disorder can get worse over time. It's not uncommon for people to get help only way after things have gone to shit. Why waste time? If it's really BPD, it's not just gonna go away. Might as well go to a doctor now -- at least that way you can be fully informed.

You should absolutely find a psychiatrist or counselor. They deal with people going through this ALL. THE. TIME.

I absolutely believe that people run to medications too quickly these days, but drugs like Adderall et al. help people like you to find focus, break self-destructive patterns, and get back to a baseline of normal.

I have considered addrell many many times only to hear from close friends that it will turn me into a bot. That's kept me away from it but perhaps I should reconsider...again.

Be careful of what friends tell you about medication or counseling. I've seen someone not get the operation or the right medication for alzheimer because someone said it weakened inhibitions. I've seen people stop taking his medication for psychiatric problems because friend told them they would be better to work it out by themselves, in one case with the result of the person having to remain in hospital for what may be the rest of his life.

Again, ou need a professional to know if it appropriate or not. Everyone fights with their attention spans, changing interests, lazy days and so many flaws we have. The question is really to know if there is a problem or if you just need to learn to know yourself a bit more.

In all cases, suicide has permanent implications to get out of a temporary condition. Even if it looks so bad, stick around, it will get better, or you'll learn how to cope with it better.

I can personally attest to the exact opposite. Aderall literally turned my life around. That doesn't mean that it will do the same for you of course. Just remember that everyone's different and that what works for you may not work for your friends.

Could you elaborate how adderall effected you? Totally understand if you can't but just in case! Thanks a lot.

Amphetamines (Adderall, Vyvanse, Dexedrine) and methylphenidate (Ritalin/Concerta) are powerful stimulants. They'll give you plenty of energy and ability to focus. This explains why they are rather commonly used by students and other folks.

The life changing aspect, for me, is that they can sometimes break me out a depressive episode. I'll have days sitting around, desperately wanting to work on something, but ending up watching TV, eating, and sleeping. This of course makes me feel bad about having not done anything, which just worsens the situation.

Stimulants can change that. Apart from the energy and focus, they often propel me into doing something. I've taken them, feeling pessimistic and resigning myself to another day of sitting around. But they'll kick in, I'll pull up my laptop, and code 8+ hours straight. That bit of progress alone is enough sometimes to break out of the depressive streak and get on with things.

But please, before starting any medications, make sure you have a psychologist to monitor you. Do not underestimate suicidal thoughts. The closest I've been to suicide is when I tried out an anti-depressive. Medication that can pull you out of depression can also provide you the energy and willpower to follow through with suicide.

Don't jump too far ahead -- medicine is a secondary issue right now. The important thing is to go see someone who is trained in mental health issues and get a diagnosis. When someone is in a depressed state they don't realize how messed up their thinking is -- people end up thinking they must have done something wrong to get in the state they are in. It's very hard to be objective in this situation and almost impossible to self-diagnose.

Any thinking about suicide, even without specific intent, is a symptom of depression.

I tried Adderall for slight ADD for about three weeks when I was an undergrad, and found the initial effect very helpful, but I could feel it degrading even over just two weeks.

That convinced me was an extremely temporary solution at best, so temporary as to not even be worth it.

Later I was walking through Barnes and Nobel and found a book on speed reading in the bargain bin:

http://www.amazon.com/Evelyn-Seven-Day-Reading-Learning-Prog...

Bought it, read it, learned it (somewhat, I still can't read a page a second), and found it improved my focus and concentration (at least on reading and programming) more than anything I'd ever tried, even Adderall.

That may or may not help you, but I'm a believer now.

"I have considered addrell many many times only to hear from close friends that it will turn me into a bot."

People vary enormously in how they respond to brain drugs, and each drug is different too. You just have to try them and see if you can find a dose where the benefits outweigh the costs. If it doesn't work, all you have lost is a little time and money. (Well, some drugs can be dangerous, but Adderall and friends generally are not.)

It is also something that is naturally outgrown, which is why I avoid suggesting pills.

This is simply not true (at least for people who need adderall).

Roughly half the kids with attention deficit disorder outgrow their symptoms by early adulthood. The rest is condemned to a life of mediocrity or worse without proper treatment.

My suggestions:

1. You will grow out of some of this, even without therapy and/or medication. At least I did.

2. Exercise and eat right, try cutting down especially on caffeine, sugar and anything else that seems to have a weird effect on you.

3. Take up something you are bad at or that you have never done. Such as learning a different language, guitar, etc. Reason is that you are skimming the cream off the top of your abilities - I think if you choose something you can fail at, then you realized you failed but are still alive, it will give you a better perspective.

This world is very tough on non-conformists. Hang in there.

While OR's reply is really helpful (and funny enough, because I was in the same situation as you were in when I was graduating school and I followed pretty much OR's suggestion, weight lifting, taking up guitar and a rec basketball league and generally not stress out and enjoy life and it worked really well ... for awhile until my old depression/anxiety came back), I feel that they are topical medication to much more deep-rooted issues.

Although most don't admit it, graduation from college is a scary experience; some sees as a transition into the real world, prepared or not, an evaluation for what they have achieved during college, if they have made up for their disappointments in high school or a continuation of the disappointments, or as a crystal ball to determine the future (e.g., a 4.0 GPA in CS/Econ leads to job at Goldman Sachs or Bio to Harvard Medical School, to a respectable life); Or "I didn't make any lasting friends or relationships, I'll be a loser for the rest of my life," or that I have found my niche, geek bent for SF conventions/hipsters bent for bohemian gentrifying neighborhood/prep bent for loft in a upscale yuppie neighborhood.

The reason most people can't commit to relationships or friendships are rooted in their own insecurity; either a feeling of inferiority/superiority when in company of others, e.g., "Lisa thinks that I'm cool, but she doesn't know who I truly am, just my pomped-up version of myself in the two times I did her" or "Fuck Dan, what does he know? He went to an arts school". It could also be that you aren't sure about what you want yourself, "Should I focus more on startup's or my social life? Should I climb the corporate ladder or pursue my own personal vision?"; Unclear personal visions leads confusion to whom you want to associate with and the values that you want to see in your friends/significant others.

Add it on top of that is your expectations that come with your startup dream. What do you wish it to validate? Because most human endeavors, when you boil down to it, isn't about money. And also, it probably isn't one of those vague feel-good mantras, "make a difference in the world, " "to innovate," or "to push envelope." The reason, most of the time is pretty personal, hence the term, "the revenge of the nerds." Why do you want to pursue your startup? So that you could be the next Sergey Brin and get invited to your high school/college graduation as a and say "fuck you" to everyone in the audience, to get the girl (or the boy), to prove your parents or former best friend or ex-girlfriend, or to correct something in the unspoken rules in the current mainstream social conventions that has hampered/traumatized you.

Answer these questions and don't resist it if they lead to paths totally different than pursuing startup's. Although most people don't like to admit it, pursuing startup's is like pursuing medicine. In the beginning, the prospect is exciting and promises the riches and respectability; it is only later that most people realize that becoming a doctor haven't solved all of their personal problems and just brought on a whole slew of more professional problems.

So, don't go to medical school unless you can't imagine doing anything but medicine.

I considered that. When I returned to school, I promised to stay away from start-ups for at least a year. My life sucked even more perhaps. Hopping onto my current startup brought some joy--though not long-lasting. But nothing has brought me long-lasting joy and that may be the crux of the problem.

So startup is a important part of what makes you happy, but focusing on it solely will not make you happy.

Now you are going to have to find out what are the missing ingredients that will make you happy, and what you are willing to give up in your startup dream (as hard it may be) to achieve those missing parts.

Because focusing solely on startup's or on banking on the success of your startup will not help those other parts of your life.

I have said this 3 times on here already, however, it has been so effective I feel its worth sharing again.

This is the only thing that has worked for me and it worked fantastically:

1) Start with some Black Tea. In my experience the caffeine in black tea causes less of crash than coffee.

2) Hemmingways Hack: http://www.secondactive.com/2009/08/boost-your-productivity-...

3) And the Pomodoro Technique http://www.pomodorotechnique.com This has hemmingsways hack built in. If done right (read the PDF) it is amazing.

-----------------------

As far as that last paragraph, it sounds like your depressed.

Depression is the most common mental health concern in our culture today. The main reason for this phenomenon is our dysfunctional lifestyle. We have stripped away supports such as family and community and replaced them with material objects, larger homes, entertainment centers, and more time at work for money and success, rather than interest, meaning, or passion. The lack of support, connectedness, and meaning leaves people feeling empty, lost, and depressed. These negatives feelings are symptoms trying to tell us that we're being deprived of essential human nutrients: to be seen, heard, and understood. Thus, depression is a healing crisis. -- http://www.wholenesstherapy.com/public/anxiety.htm

Like everyone else has said go see a counselor. You should be talking to some one about these feelings.

To me it sounds like you depression is stemming from a feeling of a lack control and a feeling that you don't have the power to make a change. If you can, I recommend reading this book http://www.amazon.com/Transformation-Understanding-Levels-Ma...

Bringing up Hemmingway to a suicidal person seems kind of cruel, no?

Also try green tea. I find the caffeine stimulus a little stronger and more mentally soothing than black tea, but the side effects are no worse.

Thanks for the link. I am considering visiting the school shrink.

After reading your thoughts about how you feel I can honestly say I currently still feel the same way about my life. It wasn't until Senior year in High School that I started to have the same feelings as you and experienced thoughts of suicide or depression along with anxiety and was given Zoloft by a doctor when I was 18. I was really outgoing in high school though but did have some rough times my senior year with the typical girl bs causing fights and what not. I also had a therapist session every other month or so (didnt start until college) to talk to about whatever really and also problems with my family.

Pretty much everything I endured with Zoloft and therapy didn't make me more confident or helped me accept the fact that I don't like to make mistakes and that in turn makes me like the The Too Many Aptitude Problem - TMA. One thing it did help me with was my suicide thoughts and even stopped me from writing good bye letters.

http://knacks.esmartdesign.com/#Aptitudes_and_Mental_Illness. - TMA

What I am trying to say is that after every thing I endured over the span of a 1 and half I was on Zoloft I really thought I was recovering from my daze I had. I felt better but not cured. But it seemed it caused a worse daze making me just pass through things in my life without real thought. My mind started to seem off and I changed from my true self. I wasn't as social, I was more cautious, and I think I lost the person I was in Senior year. This all came to a realization after I was finally taken off the drug just as my freshmen year of college came to an end.

One thing that can really help is therapy though. So totally give it chance. I know I used the tissues in the room a lot when I talked about what I was going through because his answers/questions always made me really think.

To me any drug with any type of extreme side effects is not a solution but it could be for you. Just a thought.

Take it easy.

First, get suicide out of your mind. The very thought is ridiculous. None of this is worth killing yourself over. Second, what expectations are you setting for yourself? If your self-vision is not meeting reality, that's a major cause of disappointment right there. Change your self-vision. Third, who said anything is "wrong" with you? People have different temperaments. Some people bond tightly with others, some do not. As long as you're not harboring sociopathic or homicidal thoughts that prevent you sticking to others, it's not much to worry about. Fourth, in regards to expectations, do you imagine what others might expect from you -- and this is the underlying reason to avoid them? Does having to see other people feel like confronting a school test, with that sinking feeling you're being put on the spot and might fail? Well, that's shyness. Medicine claims to have a pill for that, but I really don't trust mind pills (all pills have revenge effects sooner or later). Lastly, you are young. The opportunities available to you are many -- perhaps too many. Whittle down everything to what you really love and want to do. Once you've got that settled (and this won't happen in just one day, so be patient), once you know your passion, everything else falls into place on its own -- because you will naturally gravitate to people who share that and being around them won't feel like a test. One other thing. You might want to read The Outsiders by Colin Wilson. This will give you some insight into just how different people can be -- but that didn't stop any of the people in that book from gaining prominence. I hope some of this helped.

Find a therapist. This is the kind of thing they are expert at a fixing. Don't jump straight to drugs, just find out why you do what you do. There is probably a good reason for it all. You just need a little help sorting it all out.

Maybe you're being too hard on yourself? Most people don't have the productive energy in the first place that leads to start-ups or side-projects or even perhaps new friendships. In fact the moments in my life where I feel really inspired and enthusiastic about something (usually leading to greatly increased productivity) are few and far between. Sure I'd like to have more of them, but I don't think I could ever make that the norm. Sounds like for you, those moments are frequent enough you believe they could be sustained indefinitely...

Otherwise I don't have much advice except do well for yourself and never be ashamed of it.

Are you a perfectionist? Do you want to accomplish so many things your mind reels with the possibilities, but can't figure out which ones are worth the all out effort it takes for success?

Did you always think, "I've got some great things ahead of me", and now you ARE grown up and this IS the future and you're worried about what you have to show for it?

Maybe you want to have great friendships and do great things and all these seem to require so much energy and attention and so many steps to not mess up. If that's the case, I'd say try dialing back, focus on enjoying the journey and less on the result, because really there is no guarantee that the results will be awesome.

You say people respect you for many things but that you have a "terrible" problem with discipline and focus, something I suspect most everyone has. Maybe you're just giving yourself too much pressure and need to take it easy for a few months? Since you're still in school, have a chat with a psychological counselor on campus. To me it sounds like you might be temporarily stressed out or burned out from the efforts of your previous startup.

Peace.

Did you always think, "I've got some great things ahead of me", and now you ARE grown up and this IS the future and you're worried about what you have to show for it?

Yeah, did my first relatively successful startup in high school. Got into one of the top incubators(may be even YC). Have many people that would kill to be me. And yet, they don't know about the monsterous rut my life is plagued with--mostly because when I do get my "mojo", I am super productive and successful(even if just for few weeks or months).

I am very hard on myself and hate drama. Yet I find myself turning into that failure I never saw myself becoming and can never accept. Really, I cannot go a life as a failure. I still have plenty of belief that I can change--but it's taken a lot of hit in the last five years of trying and falling back to the same place.

Since you're still in school, have a chat with a psychological counselor on campus.

I'll do this. Last time I went to the school shrink, I was prescribed a pill but I never used the prescription. I got my idea for a startup and most of the issues went away(I got into the incubator; startup failed but still did relatively ok)...but looking back, it seems like it was only a temporary fix.

I know what you mean. I have similar issues. I tried to put together my advice in a series of articles titled "Hyperbrain user manual", some time ago. Hopefully you'll find some useful techniques there:

http://inter-sections.net/2008/08/28/hyperbrain-owners-manua...

http://inter-sections.net/2008/09/01/hyperbrain-owners-manua...

http://inter-sections.net/2008/09/05/hyperbrain-owners-manua...

http://inter-sections.net/2008/09/11/hyperbrain-owners-manua...

http://inter-sections.net/2009/02/23/hyperbrain-owners-manua...

Hope these help!

Definitely find a therapist if you have suicidal thoughts, but also consider spending some of your time with those less fortunate than yourself. This can add a lot of perspective. For example, John Vonier founded La'Arche http://www.larche.org/home.en-gb.1.0.index.htm , a set of homes where individuals with and without mental disabilities live together, and he firmly believes that the non-disabled benefit at least as much and probably more than the disabled from the relationship.

I second (or nth) the see a doctor and talk about your focus and mood difficulties. The root issue of your difficulties might simply be a chemical imbalance of some sort (some variant of bipolar disorder (manias and lows) or inattentive adhd).

Go talk to a doctor such as eg a psychiatrist (get a referral from your normal doctor perhaps?) and be very very clear about every relevant anecdote in your entire life about your troubles. Mood/attention disorders can be very frustrating when unmanaged, especially since in many cases when you talk about difficulties that are ultimately due to such to most other people, their response is like "no biggie, just do it" or the like.

That being said, this is just one avenue worth investigating and many of the other posts will probably speak of much more likely applicable approaches.

But seriously, its always a good idea to talk to a doctor when theres nontrivial physical or mental distress that is evading solution.

Difficult to say much from a forum post... errors in self perception are probably a large part of the problem. I don't think you have a motivation problem. You seem to start lots of things. I have a motivation problem. I haven't started anything (let alone an actual 'startup') in a very long time.

One thing that strikes me is how long you last with what ever endeavour you undertake... 1 - 2 weeks is very short, especially for a relationship. I don't think that is enough time to genuinely lose interest. I take this to mean that either you didn't really want to do the thing in the first place or are afraid of something.

I don't think medicalising the issue is a good first option, as other people have said. You describe some depressive-like features such as hopelessness, loss of enjoyment, social withdrawal, weird dazes... but once you label this as a disease, it becomes very difficult to deal with it in other than a medical fashion. Having said that, if you are reading about suicide, I would get professional help.

I don't have any particular advice. It may be that entrepeneurial pursuits (which are open ended, with ill defined goals and little feedback) are not the right thing for you at this stage of life. I would also suggest you try something which places no pressure on you, and isn't encompassed by the failure cycle you describe. An example would be some sort of volunteer work, or a (team) sport/hobby. (A startup doesn't count as volunteer work.)

I wouldn't rule out something medically not quite optimal with your brain and you may want to talk to a professional about some medication to help bring things in to a balance (you didn't mention that you'd done that yet or not).

Medical aspects aside, it sounds like you've not been able to find a niche yet. I'm not trying to trivialize this, but you obviously do have some passion (as others note) but you can't channel it in to something productive for very long. It also sounds like you're trying to do this all on your own.

There are people who remain stuck in one routine for years or decades. You have the ability - probably a compulsion - to get in to new situations routinely. Believe it or not, this would be seen as an asset in many organizations. A 'presales engineer' position (if you're technical) might be a great position to get in to, as you're constantly getting in to new situations and people, most of whom you won't need to deal with a few weeks or months after the sale is made.

Without sounding trite, suicide isn't the answer. You've likely got quite a lot to offer. You're on HN after all ;) I hate to just say 'go get counseling and medication' - I think there's probably other things you can do outside of that, or in addition to that course.

I realize I don't know you much, except for what you've posted here, but I really don't think things are as hopeless for you as they may feel right now. I don't think I've had things as bad as you're describing, but I am known for an extreme inability to focus/concentrate on anything for very long. I don't tout it, but have worked on coping strategies over the years. Eventually I found a book by Barbra Sher (http://www.barbarasher.com) - well, she's got a few. Wishcraft might be a decent one to start with. It's free, and while a bit airy fairy at times, might help you to see things in a different light. I was first turned on to Sher when I was reading up on the problem of TMI (Too Many Interests).

http://knacks.esmartdesign.com/#The_Too_Many_Aptitude_Proble... was the first article I'd found, which seemed to describe me to a T. I've since self-diagnosed myself with that 'condition' and went looking for info which would help me learn more about that. There's no 'magic bullet cure', but that bit of self-knowledge has helped me avoid situations which I knew would make me miserable, and have slowly forged a better, more fulfilling life (though even now, I keep changing my goal posts).

The biggest thing I learned from that little journey is that there's nothing 'wrong' (in an absolute sense) with that condition - it's just different.

If you'd care to discuss any of this further, please ping me at any time at mgkimsal@gmail.com or 919-827-4724.

Wow, that Too Many Aptitudes thing is spot on for me. I've been struggling with that exact problem, every other month I'm a hacker, a fiction writer, a philosopher, a graphics designer, a jeweler, a social worker, a fashion designer, etc, etc. My latest effort has been just to accept that my interests will rotate and rather than abandon old projects, just come back to them when I get interested in them again, and hopefully eventually I will complete something...

Check out http://wishcraft.com to grab a PDF book from Sher.

This book: http://www.amazon.com/Refuse-Choose-Revolutionary-Program-Ev... helped me identify myself more.

I got this book for my wife: http://www.amazon.com/Could-Anything-Only-Knew-What/dp/04405... and she said it helped her refocus things.

The takeaway from all of this is that TMA page helped me identify and 'diagnose' (in a loose sense) that condition. The Sher books above helped with some practical advice on how to live and deal, and sometimes thrive, with the condition. Her term for someone with TMA would be 'scanner' , and she's written about scanners for years.

I've been juggling things for a while, and currently I'm a publisher (groovymag and jsmag), a consultant (really just consulting sometimes), a developer (hands on coding), a trainer, speaker (2-3 conferences per year), have written a book, and am working on some other projects for later this year which may help open some doors in to new avenues.

Had I stayed at my job I would have been more compensated financially but far less fulfilled. That said, I still wrestle with feelings of unfulfilledness, and some of that comes down to not being able to execute on all my ideas. What I'd like to do is get to the point where I'm comfortable hiring people to do a lot of the grunt work fulfilling my ideas (I don't particularly care to do the work, I just think it needs to get done).

This doesn't mean I'll never take a traditional full time job again, but I'm a lot more demanding and critical when I talk to potential employers. That still comes up now and then, and I'm a lot of aware of myself and open when talking about employment. Nothing has yet fit the bill, but I'm not shutting the doors to that possibility. I just don't think it'll be likely. It'll need to be a kickass company and/or working in an extremely engaging problem space with some freedom for me to float around some. Very few traditional jobs fit that bill.

Thanks for the links. Right now I'm in the position where finishing college has been a 7 year ordeal and I still don't 'know what I'm going to do'. Started off in CS but it required way more singular focus than I am capable of (was at CMU), so I switched to creative writing, which allows a lot more flexibility in terms of what I decide to put on a page, but not particularly clear career paths...

I have what I think are some pretty awesome web/software ideas, but I only ever spend a few days in a row working on them because coding requires that sort of singular focus that I can't maintain for much longer than that.

And then now there's potentially (probably) a girl in the mix, so who knows what's going to happen...

I had no idea what to do starting college, then I dropped out. I went back later (long story) - ended up taking a logic course in philosophy program - aced it, and routed myself in to a philosophy degree. What the hell do you do with a philosophy degree? Get a programming job of course! (which is what I managed).

I was basically doing the drop out thing while I was in college. I would take 4 courses a semester, focus on whichever one piqued my interest, and then fail or drop out of the other 3. Wasted a lot of money.

No idea what to do? Why, just major in cognitive science!

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

-Robert A. Heinlein

It's a very stirring quote, and one I used to like. But the only way to do novel work is to go far enough in one direction that you get past the problem space all the specialists have already covered, and that seems hard to do part-time.

Thanks for the TMA link. Hadn't heard of that trait before in that language.

Have you heard of the Kolbe spectrum/ test?

It helped me evaluate my strengths/weakness a lot. It's unfortunately not free, which I think prevents it from attaining the credibility it deserves.

I really like the way it thinks: http://www.kolbe.com/ (No affiliation.)

It has a TMA-esque category It really helped me self-diagnose... and diagnose others, heh heh.

Basically it got me off of binary skill judgement of both myself and others. (Less "that person is awesome!" or "that person sucks!" and more about how job design is usually the issue, rather than people.)

Had not heard of Kolbe, and yeah, if it's not free, it might not get as wide acclaim. (just noticed it was featured on Oprah - I guess they don't need any more acclaim!). That said, the TMA stuff is not a clinical diagnostic tool, just some guy's writings. That said, they are quite accurate in how they reflect much of my own thinking and mind.

It's taken me a long time to stop being as judgmental about people as I've been in the past, and to start recognizing and appreciating the particular skills and qualities others have. It's not easy to recognize in others when you measure everyone (and yourself) against perfection.

I'm not sure many of the psychological tests out there are free, and likely having one 'officially' administered wouldn't be free anyway. I had my IQ tested as an adult a couple years ago by a friend's wife who needed to run these tests as part of her phd work. Apparently it's quite easy to find kids to test, but few adults were willing to put themselves through it. I hadn't realized the 'instruments' cost so much money, but there's a big industry in psychologically measuring and evaluating people. It shouldn't have been a surprise, but it was.

Thanks a ton for the TMA link. It was like reading a manual about myself. I have been struggling with my job choices ever since I started working 3 years back. I find it difficult to fit into the system, and I find myself questioning authority all the time. Somewhere down the line I realized that I am able to perform at my best when I am put in an environment with very less restrictions and I have the freedom to make strategic decisions. Being given a list of specs and then coding to the specs is just not my kind of thing. I have often felt confused about my career decision to be a programmer due to this reason.

Just like the OP I find it difficult to sustain my interests for a long time. I have been trying for my own startup for the past one and a half years. I start on ideas with very high initial enthusiasm, but in a few weeks I have given up on the idea and jumped to the next exciting one. Looking back on the last one year or so I feel disappointed with myself for wasting possible opportunities. But many thanks to the OP and all other good HN'ers for throwing more light on this issue. I feel I understand myself better now, and i'm going to approach my interests with a new sense of purpose. Thanks again.

No problem - glad I could help shed some light on things. I've recently come to that conclusion about work - currently I'm best when I get to make strategic decisions, whether it's about which client work to take, code architecture, or just about anything really.

"Being given a list of specs and then coding to the specs is just not my kind of thing" I bet creating the architecture for how the problem will be solved in the first place is more your kind of thing. I used to think every programmer wanted to be an architect, then realized a few years ago that wasn't the case.

Hang in there, and keep working at it!

Appreciate your kind words and the links! Thank you.

You're plenty welcome. And... as odd as it may have seemed, the phone number's there if/when you want to chat. It may amount to absolutely nothing, or it might be useful for the both of us. I'm not awake 24/7, but am available quite a lot :) By way of reference, I'm plenty older than you, and have dealt with a lot of how you feel (except for the startup in highschool stuff!) since my teens - it definitely can get better. To a large extent things are what we make of them, and the beauty of life is that we can make of it what we want (sorry to get too philosophical so late/early in the day!)

You're so generous. Thank you again! You may also be local to me(yay 919ers).

yep - yay 919ers! I'll be at the PHP meetup group in Carrboro on July 14th, but I live near Wake Forest in north Raleigh :)

Hi, I don't really understand your lack of self discipline. I am going to probably go off on some incredibly poorly written tangent here, but please work through it; friend :)

The lack of focus and discipline is something i totally understand, and I think that it might be a product of your your readings if you have in fact worked through say the Kiyosaki books or equivalent. You had a taste of the high from doing your startup, you hopefully learned a whole hell of a lot and you really like that idea(that life) and that's fine. Maybe you were sold on the ideologies they sell, and that's great, they can be achieved, I promise. Maybe it isn't working out for you right now, but you are merely 23. I am 29 now, everything(literally) in my life has changed since I was 23. Education, housing, girls, friends, employment etc.

I think it boils down to a few things really, your entire ambiguity toward life is something i somewhat understand but something you should really address. I think you need to find something to work toward, be it a new start-up or anything. Just because you "failed" once it doesn't mean you'll fail again. Remember that :)

I think you need to simply pick something and get it done, something you can totally get behind.

Maybe you are avoiding something you need to do that you aren't doing? That has been my case in the past.

Also don't go through with suicide. I went through it with my dad a few years ago(he succeeded, after a botched attempt a month earlier).... It isn't something I would wish on my worst enemy's family...

I hope you take care and heed the other advice here, I just felt compelled to weigh in and seeing this phone number from another user here makes me feel a little better about writing here on hacker news.

Your lack of focus on a particular thing sounds similar to the cycle I have found myself in. Discover, learn, master, get bored.

I have my own concerns about this cycle, but it does have an upside you can channel; I have been picking up new skills left and right. As an example, I am currently fixing up a motorcycle I bought for real cheap. My passion for mechanics has long abated, but I still find it mildly pleasant and I want the goal (getting the bike running). Because I was so deep into cars and motorcycles for a while, I am quite excellent at servicing now. I know exactly what to do without much trouble, which enriches my life by opening doors and extending the life of my vehicles.

Virtually anything complicated enough to be stimulating can work with this cycle. I am currently contemplating diving into nutrition. I'll get completely bored of food after a while, but for the rest of my life I'll have the skills and knowledge to tap into.

Read up on Mastery by George Leonard. You seem to be describing a "hacker". I highly doubt that you truly master skills so quickly. Mastery should not be taken lightly. The actual process of mastery is consuming and immensely rewarding.

Ok, master is a poor choice of words.

I know exactly what this is like. I was about the same age as you when I started really getting worried about the same things you are.

If you do everything I say here, it probably won't make you a dynamo overnight. It will help you avoid backsliding, though. Over the next few years, if you are diligent, you will learn new habits.

Step 1: Throw your TV and any video game systems you have in the trash (or more sensibly, disconnect them and put them on craigslist so they are out of your house today). The whole point of startup culture is to give up some fun now (wait, working at a startup IS fun) in exchange for a huge pile of money later. You want to work 80+ hours a week, and probably have a girlfriend too. When does playing Xbox fit in there? In a few years, when you are the founder of a hot, funded startup, you can have an XBOX in your game room. Or you can play it now, and maybe the VC fairy will be impressed by your GTA skills. -- The point is, every minute spent fucking around is a minute you could be working or learning new skills.

Step N: The next time you are wondering "why can't I be productive", imagine a little bell ringing in your head. The bell is there to remind you to sit down and work. If you find yourself browsing reddit or hn or some other site, add entries to your hosts file so that you CAN'T browse those sites. Often the anxiety that keeps a person from being productive is at it's worst at exactly those times that you would otherwise be the most productive. Never visit any distracting site like that from your work area or from your work computer.

Step Na: Give yourself a little goal to accomplish (write it down) when you sit down to work, and don't let yourself get up to do something else (besides restroom breaks) until you accomplish the little goal you wrote down. When you do accomplish it, imagine another 'you' there, and see if that other 'you' would accept the quality of the work if you were an employee. Once you give the work a thumbs up, force yourself to take a 15 minute break. Go outside for a walk, call a friend, just get off the computer. Once you are comfortable with this micro-routine (say after 3 weeks of doing it consistently), check out GTD. Resist the urge to go full on GTD now, however. Most likely you will get distracted setting up notebooks and org-mode or other yak-shaving instead of getting actual work done.

Step X: Make an appointment with a psychiatrist that has experience treating adults with depression, ADHD and anxiety issues. It may help a lot, and it can't hurt.

You sound like me a few years ago. I since found out I have ADD.

You might have it too. You might want to get checked.

Have the treatments worked for you? I've come super close to getting tested for ADD, each time resisting out of fear that it'll only be another temporary fix(in pills). May be I'm wrong reading stories like yours.

>Have the treatments worked for you?

Yes. Sometimes completely, usually partially.

>I've come super close to getting tested for ADD, each time resisting out of fear that it'll only be another temporary fix(in pills).

OK. I believe you should get tested anyway; testing does not mean you have to follow through with treatment. Benefits from knowing you have ADD include being able to read about it. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Attention-Deficit-Disorder-Unfocused...

About the pills: it turns out ADD is a chemical problem. I have heard about it being treated with therapy (talking to people) but really, the real fix is pills. In my case at least, there is a hole in my brain shaped like amphetamines (Adderall, Ritalin) and if I take amphetamines I have nothing to envy people without ADD. When I first took them I felt something I had never felt before: an incredible sense of urgency and desire to work.

Is it a temporary fix? In some senses yes, in others, no. It can be temporary in that SSRI's induce tolerance, much like cigarettes or coffee. But this is hardly a Red Queen scenario. Most people with ADDs reach a dose they're comfortable with and can work with from here to forever, with some caveats your doctor can tell you about. I would not compare it to padding your schedule to deal with time overruns due to procrastination. This is a fundamental change in the way your brain works.

And if you don't like the idea of taking pills, consider this: there's really no other way out if you have ADD and are part of the 80% of ADD patients who respond positively to pills.

I highly recommend it.

This is very insightful. Thank you!

No matter what you choose to do, I hope you get better :)

Read P.J. Eby's "Thinking Things Done". It's unfinished, but chapters 1-7 are very good. You have to sign up for his mailing list to receive them. I found out about this from http://lesswrong.com/lw/21r/pain_and_gain_motivation/

Consider spending a lot of time alone, or at least outside any institution for a while. Hell is other people. It's hard for me to think clearly when other people's thoughts are an important part of my day.

Consider meditating. (See the recently posted "Mindfulness in Plain English"). I just started, but I'm already getting the same euphoric level of concentration that I get from programming.

I second that. Eby's good and so is meditation.

If you really get into meditation, consider reading the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. The religious elements don't make sense to me but he understands what mediation does for the mind.

Signed up for the mailing list, but only chapters 1-2 are available. Anyone got a link to chapters 3-7?

Interesting resources, thanks!

If you read the literature, from ancient Greek to nowadays, you will find that every body is fighting the same thing at different degree. The main problem we all have on this Earth is that our life is relatively short and when we are comfortable enough to have food/friends/etc. we automatically start to ask ourselves, directly or not:

What do I want to do in my life?

From what you described, you have no answer to this question. You can see a psychiatrist, take some drugs, use all the GTD tricks or whatever, if you do not have this goal of what you want to do, this will only make the problem worse. You will be able to do a lot (in fact you already do a lot) but you will still have strictly no reasons to focus on anything.

So go, find a goal. Find friends who can help you to find a goal. Find strangers, too. Go meditate a week long. Do whatever you need to clear your mind and find 1 or 2 things you can do fully (your mind, your body etc.) for at least the next year (you are young, your life goal will change a lot) and do it/them.

You are lucky to ask yourself what is going on in your 20's. If you do not answer this question, imagine getting a standard job + family and then asking yourself the same question with 40... so, do it now and again on a regular basis.

We are all in the same boat and for most of us, the long term goal of our life is just a pleasant string of short/middle term goals with happiness on top of it.

Sounds like you need some momentum to get the wheels turning again. Your mind sounds a bit claustrophobic - that is to say, lots going on that's making you go crazy. Go find some adventure and get off the road you're on. Go do something that 'crazy' people do. One time I was really really frustrated, so I traveled around the world (sounds absurd, but that's basically how simple my thought process was and how little planning i did. I just convinced myself I could make it up as I go). Getting on the road will distance yourself from a lot of things on your mind, provide some clarity on things that are important, and make you focus on immediate problems - like where to sleep so you don't get robbed and how you're going to get from A to B because the bus route in the book or on the website doesn't exist anymore. You'll learn a lot about yourself by dealing with things as they come, by meeting cool people, and by seeing new markets for your ideas everywhere you go. I was dead broke when I got back, and I slept on my friend's floor for 2 months before paying him any backrent - but hey, what're friends for. It didn't cost me a fortune, just most of what I made working summers in college.

Hi Damnit,

Just wanted to say that I exhibit much the same set of phenomena that you do. I don't ever finish anything I start, I always look for something new, I ride the wave of exhilaration that comes from sinking my teeth into some serious new intellectual problem, coding 18 hour days, and then give up entirely a week later and endlessly refresh HN. I quit jobs and relationships etc. all the time, and then strike up new ones which seem to be destined to last forever.

The difference is that it doesn't bother me so much. I'm quite happy with my life as it is. I think that the need for "production" and "accomplishing goals" etc. is largely a cultural artifact. It's not really important. I think it'd be incredibly boring to be doing the same job for a whole two years.

It stopped bothering me roughly around the time I started exercising (martial arts) and meditating (zazen), so perhaps that has something to do with it. But that's also the time I graduated from school, so maybe it was the newfound freedom that made me happier. Note that I didn't change one bit - I still am a start-only person. It's just that I'm comfortable with it now.

I think you should just enjoy it, if you can.

Thanks for taking time to comment. How did you work your struggles with discipline? ie. I have tried meditation/yoga/working out many times only to relapse and give up week or month later.

This pattern has repeated so many times in the last 5 years I have reached a point I don't want to try anything new because of the fear/knowledge that it won't stick.

> I don't want to try anything new because of the fear/knowledge that it won't stick

My point was ... so what if it doesn't stick? Just don't worry about it. So you're a person who starts things but doesn't finish them. Big deal. Just enjoy whatever you're doing while you do it and when you're sick of it and feel like something else, do that. Just go with it.

You can't fight this kind of thing .. just roll with it, accept and enjoy the fact that this is your personality. At least you're not boring!

That mindset is how I deal with this, and it's worked fine for me. You don't have to be or do anything. You're OK already.

A friend of mine committed suicide last December, at your age and from what I can tell, in a similar situation (he was even also a previous YC participant). It hurts how much reading this reminds me of him.

You mention some people know this side of you (to what degree?) but that they don't know how to help you. I think it's critical that during this rough patch you're going through, in addition to receiving anonymous advice here on HN, you surround yourself with supportive people in real life. Even if it's just one person that sticks with you through this, that you are completely open to and stay in close touch with about your plans and progress as you try therapy, medication and various other techniques.

For ideas on how to involve other people without having to be embarrassed or being too much of a burden, read about Jane McGonigal's "recovery game": http://blog.avantgame.com/2009/09/super-better-or-how-to-tur...

I wish you all the best.

I sympathize with you. All I can say is that.. don't give up. Somewhere, sometime, you'll ready enjoy what you're doing and you will look back at this sad time of your life and think: Damn, I'm so happy I didn't give up.

Also, it's easy to make friend and I agree with you that it's hard to be motivated to stick with them.. However, I'm sure you'll encounter real friend where you won't need to be motivated.. you'll just enjoy being with them as they will be part of your life. Same with girls.. once you'll find someone that you really like (and not only the first kick), you'll be actually happy to spend time with her and she'll help you to get more motivated.

Finally, next with the startup.. once you'll really enjoy your project, it will be so much easier to stick with it and get motivated. And sometime, the best way to motivate you, is to start small and publish something.. with real people around the world waiting for your next version, it really does give a little kick in the but :p

I'm in the same boat. I have always loved and tried to make startups work. I read all the books and all that jazz. I took a giant leap of faith and failed. Slowly but surely I have started to get my life in order again. I have tried sucide before and failed. After that I have refused to try again. I see that as the easy way.

Now I'm starting to get my hopes back up and there are people around me that believe in me. I would highly recommend reading "think and grow rich". Ever heard of the book "the secret"? They ripped off that book.

I often find myself too making new friends only to not keep them after a year or so. Sometimes less. That's part of life.

Find something you like to do and obsess over it. That's what I'm doing now.

Also you will always need balance in your life and the focus and motivation will come.

Again, if you haven't read think and grow, read it and follow the instructions outlined within that book. If you have read it, read the damn thing again.

I've struggled with trying to make a success of my company too and my family is far away and I've had thoughts similar to yours.

But I always came back to the fact that I can always do something different. I can drop everything and go back to where I grew up and just take an ordinary job.

Remember that there is nothing more important than your life and desire to succeed at a startup or in corporate America or anything else is just conditioning and not necessarily important at all.

Personally, I took a contract job recently where I can only work 8 hours a day. Its great to hang it up at the end of the day like a normal person.

There's nothing wrong with taking a break from struggling with a startup. Things will come together later. Its not supposed to be so hard anyway. There's a difference between intense creative collaboration and solitary unhappy struggle.

I truly hope this helps.

Remember that there is nothing more important than your life and desire to succeed at a startup or in corporate America or anything else is just conditioning and not necessarily important at all.

That's something I cannot come to terms with. I really want to succeed. I know I can succeed if I just became disciplined and focused.

Not sure of the situation but for me nothing focuses me more than having a real customer and/or collaborator to whom I've made real commitments to.

When I've worked on my own, its real easy to get distracted and rationalize putting things off. I'd be lucky to get in a full eight hours.

But working with others, I found myself working many hours beyond even the time we spent directly collaborating. Because I had to deliver on my commitments. I think many people need that.

A dude - you summed my self up perfectly too. I have been on anti-depressants before and they didn't help too much, however the thing with anti-depressants is you cant compare two days side by side, 1 on meds and the other not, they just dont work like that. You have to be on them for a month before they start to work and once you stop they stay in your system for a couple of months.

I always hated anti-depressants and was one of those naive people who say its all in your head, and to an extent it mostly is. The problem is that if its in your head how do you change your way of thinking.

Personally I get pre-occupied with the thought of failure rather than success, and when you constantly think you will fail at something you immediately put you self on the back foot regardless of what you want to do.

Oh god, you are me! I haven't been able to identify these troubles I've been having my whole as a problem. At least now I know it's not normal and I should do something about it. Thank you very much posting this.

Most people are like that, in varying degree. The internets have certainly made it easier for us to stop doing stuff for more attractive stuff. If I was in jail with only one book, I bet one could really read it and grok it. Something similar is happening to me right now: a website I was developing has moved beyond the "cool" phase to the "now I need hard work" phase and I already started playing with another website...

Don't change who your are.Take a Job and do stuff that fits you.You will be more productive and best at what you do like that.I am a completely dis-organized person.I sleep when I feel like it,I do stuff when I feel like it etc...So I chose freelancing which suits my style and I am a happy man. "Its not becoming like someone else,its accepting who you are" Good Luck

Join the military.

Sorry...just a knee-jerk reaction.

Maybe you could see a psychiatrist or doctor? This may be a sign of a problem best treated with medication.

"After a million self-help programs and motivation books that haven't been of much help"

Which self-help programs and books?

You name it. Toni Robbins, Eckhart Tolle, Think and grow rich.

After a while they just become noise if you don't have the self-discipline to follow them.

The best bit to get out of many of these guys is that each of us needs to find our service to others. What can you do to benefit and serve other people? When you find the answer to this question, you will be led to both success, and meaning.

You feel like you need to accomplish something important. You don't. Just have fun!

Your chi is weak.

Practice martial arts. Good for exercise, good for confidence, good for chi.

Try Jujitsu. Wake up!

Reading this I felt as if someone was holding up a mirror to me. I am a borderline personality, so in some ways I know how you feel. On the other hand I should be the last person giving you advice as I am a work in progress too, but I need to say a few things to you.

First of all, I know that you probably feel inside that it's wrong for you to be like this, and sometimes you just question why you're a freak. Other times you might question your very existence, and how far you have fallen. After all being hysterical isn't something that you look forward too. I used to feel exactly the same, but then you have those days when everything is beautiful and you are high in ways that is so difficult to define in words. Those days make you wonder even more why you're like this, but the thing is that its okay. There is nothing wrong with you.

I know that this is so clichéd and you hear this all the time, but its true. It takes some time to digest and even more time to accept, but consider the possibility. This curse might actually be a boon in a lot of ways.

Second, is there anyone you love and trust? Talking to people helps a lot, especially when you are down and out. It, in fact, saved my life. I wouldn't be alive bashing this out right now if someone hadn't loved me, guided me and accepted me.

I know that you probably won't talk to them because you don't want to be a burden, but can you imagine how they feel about you? They will in fact be glad that you reached out to them in the darkest moments of your life, and it will show you a side of humanity that most people never see. As this forum proves people can be extremely kind, loving and generous. A lot of people are will go the distance to help you heal. Let them do that.

You are not a burden either. In fact, it's quite probable that you've made a contribution to their life in a way that even you can't define. So, don't plunge the icy dagger of death into them. Reach out to them. Also if you want you can email me at yesthisisananonymousid [at] gmail. (can't post my real id on this forum in case someone from my past reads this)

Third, taking those pills will not be a good experience. At times they are a constant reminder that no matter what you do, what plans you make, what you think, what you dream. You are at the mercy of those tiny bundles of chemicals, and a bunch of receptors in your brain.

DON'T let that stop you from taking them. They are a lifeline in that chaos, and sure there is a cost to taking some of them but it is worth each and every moment. It helps you to breathe in a way that you had long forgotten, and that sense of freedom from your moods is an amazing feeling. Moreover, as time passes on you'll be able to leave that crutch, or reduce it to barely perceptible amounts, and live life free.

Fourth, I want you to know that you really aren't alone. Even though we have never met, and probably never will I want to tell you that I can empathize with you and if you wish I want to be there for you.

Take care.

P.S. - You might get some mileage from the awesome advice lionhearted and others gave me in this thread (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1484882).

Thanks man, really appreciate your support. Helps to know I'm not the only one going through this stuff.

I suggest working with a good business or life coach. Look for ones that focus on getting things done. They will help you stay accountable, motivate you and chew you out when you need to be.

Hey dude,

I strongly identify with your feelings - I know that place very well.

Here is the way I hacked it out: 1. Regarding relationships with girls\friend - After years of having too many friends, I understood that almost everyone I met wanted to be friends of mine, this lead to an overload of friends, and made me be not a good friend of a lot of freinds. Once I realized that, I decided to stop socializing with everyone I met, and focus on my closest friends.

Another hack regarding friends - I found that having a certain structure, like meeting every thursday to play poker and playstation - was really good for me.(Of course that I socialize beyond this routine, but this baseline routine with friends really made our friendship strong and fulfilling).

2. Focusing on one thing: I found that working with partners really helps me focus, it is true regarding learning, programming and founding startups.

If you wish to create a new startup - find a partner and make it with him\her - level out with him that you have a focusing problem - and that he should call you out if he sees that you are unfocused or unproductive.

this is very powerful, this discovery has changed my life, it allowed me to open my startups, and today I am the owner of a very successful israeli bootstrapped start up(founded with 2 partners ofcourse).

3. hacking suicide thoughts\meaningless feeling - most important hack of all - imagine being a mountaineer, climbing on the everest, your feet hurt, it is difficult to breath, it is cold, but you still do it because it is your fucking dream.

Now image climbing the everest without a special reason, without having the dream of climbing it - the pain would be the same, but you would hate it so much, it would take so much energy from you, you would be miserable and stop pretty early on.

My point is, my friend - that if you feel that pain overwhelms you - you are currently climbing the wrong mountain(You don't have a burning desire).

You should stop climbing(trying to focus, trying to better yourself, trying to do things) - and decide what is the thing you really want to do. You might not know, you might have some options and you won't be sure which is the "right" dream from you, I can tell you this, life is precious - you should be brave(taking the risk of maybe it is the "wrong" dream) and choose your dream - and fucking go for it full power. Even if in the end you will understand that you didn't "really" want to do that dream, the only true way of finding out is doing it fullpower.

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If all fails - I highly recommend finding a life coach, I have found that they are extremely useful, not trying to figure out whats wrong with you, but just giving you power to do the things you really want to do(and finding out what these things are).

Pain is one thing and it's understandable to fight pain while running a startup. But where I'm at now--this indifference to life--is scarier than pain. It's weird. I should be able to work through it though! Thanks for the uplifting words.

Ok, first of all, there are no easy answers to this, but the good news is it's mostly how you are looking at things.

You need to find an environment that fits your personality, you like start ups and can't stay focused? Great you're the support guy, there are always a million little things you can do. When you're not being distracted by support emails / calls you can fix the bugs they want fixed.

Relationship? You're 23, don't worry about it, you don't need a long term relationship right now and probably haven't figured out what you really want in a partner. Exceptional partners are just that, exceptional, you're not going to meet that person everyday. A week or two? That's not a relationship thats getting to know someone.

You can't stay focused on a project for more than two or three weeks? Great, there is a new methodology called agile. It's perfect for you. Your project is now a feature. You have two weeks to implement it. The good news is you're not going to be prone to embarking on any Sisyphean tasks.

If you want inspiration I have a contract due in 6 hours and I'm sitting around posting on HN. I can't focus either.

You need to stop trying to conform to your environment and start trying to find an environment in which your traits are invaluable. Stop beating yourself up over who you're not, start embracing who you are.

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