Comment by 0xcoffee | Hacker News Reader

Comment by 0xcoffee | Hacker News Reader

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Also, when you run `dotnet restore`, you get the following message:

  Welcome to .NET Core!
  ---------------------
  Learn more about .NET Core @ https://aka.ms/dotnet-docs. Use dotnet --help to see available commands or go to https://aka.ms/dotnet-cli-docs.

  Telemetry
  --------------
  The .NET Core tools collect usage data in order to improve your experience.
  The data is anonymous and does not include command-line arguments. The data is collected by Microsoft and shared with the community.
  You can opt out of telemetry by setting a DOTNET_CLI_TELEMETRY_OPTOUT environment variable to 1 using your favorite shell.
  You can read more about .NET Core tools telemetry @ https://aka.ms/dotnet-cli-telemetry.

  Configuring...
  -------------------
  A command is running to initially populate your local package cache, to improve restore speed and enable offline access. This command will take up to a minute to complete   and will only happen once.

Sure its enabled by default, but at least they clearly notify you about it. So its strange that the author says: 'I’ve been using the dotnet core since well before then and I never knew about this.'

The author must not be used to the new spyware-by-default mentality coming from Microsoft.

Hard to believe, but they used to sell products a while ago and had no telemetry.

If you want to see how it's done properly, look at OmniGroup: their apps have toggleable telemetry and it's off by default.

@blub can you explain me how it's exactly "spying on you"?

There is difference between collecting information about how many people are using vs whether a particular person is using.

Collecting diagnostic information from windows application failures/how many failures etc are there ever since Windows 95 era.

Similarly, collecting information about how many people are using dotnet core build/test/publish is similar to how Google/Mozilla tracks how many users are running which version of their product and experience issues.

If Microsoft/Google/Mozilla or any other company uses that information to identify a specific person is "effectively spying on you". Until that's not there, the same functionality exists in almost every product. Just click bait article.

Mozilla asks you, whether you want to send the telemetry.

If you say no, it won't send anything.

No, the settings do not mysteriously reset themselves.

Firefox tracks users with Google Analytics in the add-on settings | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14753546

  "Someone submitted a PR to Mozilla to fix this, and the Mozilla devs closed it"

Impossible to opt-out until about 2 weeks ago.

Come on, that was a bug in the new preferences pages.

The telemetry I was talking about is exactly the one, where you get a bar at the bottom during first launch. Try it, you will see it.

Perhaps this instance was an honest mistake.

The specifics of a custom deal with Google and the circling of the wagons (specifically opinions expressed by multiple Mozilla employees in an official capacity) prior to reversing course does not strengthen that case.

> If you say no, it won't send anything.

This simply wasn't true; I am glad that the implementation was fixed.

Spyware is software collecting information about someone without their consent.

Doesn't have to be malicious, doesn't have to be what's legally defined as personal information. The fact that many companies are doing it doesn't make it less inappropriate.

Reputable companies will clearly inform users and ask for their confirmation. Then they respect their choice.

Disreputable companies such as MS or Google take without asking, use dark patterns to trick users, default to always on, reset privacy settings, etc.

As someone who has removed my fair share of spyware infections I'll say "easy now".

I think I'll be happy the day EU and American consumer protection agencies start looking closer into Googles business.

I'd also applaud even more visible information about what exactly gets collected and sent (the old gds "Read very carefully - this is not the usual yadda yadda" would be a good start).

However IMO we shouldn't call legitimate telemetry "spyware". I thing that is what you call "crying wolf".

> The author must not be used to the new spyware-by-default mentality coming from Microsoft. Hard to believe, but they used to sell products a while ago and had no telemetry.

Yeah well you and the author's first clue should have been when you stopped paying for said products.

And in this specific case, it's really not spying, it reveals pretty much nothing about you and help them figure out what is used and what fails.

Give them time to find new "opportunities" to monetize...

https://news.microsoft.com/2017/07/19/dun-bradstreet-teams-u...

I use a ton of software I don't pay for which also doesn't spy on me.

Or are you making some weird accusations against the FSF and the GNU Project?

What use is off-by-default? Who turns telemetry on?

This says that telemetry is the wrong solution then.

Why? Defaults are important and the vast majority don't care (assuming correctly selected telemetry data) and the majority can't be bothered to change the default in either case.

Again I am making a huge assumption about correctly selected telemetry data here but opt in mechanisms won't get even 10% of the data they currently do.

Defaults should respect the user first. Consent has to be given, not taken as a default.

Sure ask up front explicitly but don't in passing invoke the first capture before consent has been taken. That's a shitty tactic.

Collecting basic usage data is not disrespecting the user.

It is when you know you can't persuade them you have a good-enough reason to need it, so instead you don't even try.

In your opinion. Mine differs.

Debian pop-con is opt-in. http://popcon.debian.org/

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