Comment by haberman | Hacker News Reader

Comment by haberman | Hacker News Reader

> Last year, they teamed up to buy Nokia’s HERE, a digital mapping service crucial for driverless cars. Volkswagen’s Müller says he does not want to be dependent on digital services companies in the fast-growing market for self-driving technology and mobility services. “We want to be in control of our destiny,” he told Handelsblatt in June.

I can understand why they want that, but as a consumer I want a good experience. When non-software companies write software, it seems it is almost invariably inferior. I never actually enjoyed the experience of using a car stereo until I got a deck that supports CarPlay (Apple) and Android Auto (Google). These standards let you attach your phone to the stereo and let the phone run the UI. They are so much better than the software that comes on stereo decks.

Even Apple Maps, made by a good software company, is still noticeably inferior to Google Maps in my opinion. Apple has severely demoted Google Maps on its platform, presumably for the same reason as the carmakers: they don't want to be dependent on Google. So you can't use Google Maps in CarPlay, and if you click on an address in iMessage "Open in Google Maps" is not an option. For Apple I'm sure they see this as being less dependent on Google, but for me as a user it's pushing me away from their platform. I want the best maps product out there, and for me that is Google Maps. So I'm planning for my next phone to be a Google phone.

(It's almost hilarious how far Apple goes in this. If you delete the Apple Maps app from your phone, and then click an address in iMessage, "Open in Google Maps" still isn't an option. But there is an option to re-install Apple Maps. This strikes me as pretty insecure that their maps product can compete on its merits.)

EDIT: I had slightly misunderstood: HERE is an acquisition consisting of all the Navteq data. So it does have legitimately good data behind it.

HERE is superb. In my experience it works better for (car) navigation than Apple or Google.

It goes back a long time, I've already had it on my Nokia 5800 and then on my Windows phone.

I reguarly drive rentals from all German premium brands. All their navigation is good, but the VW/Audi navigation system stands out. It has the cleanest interface and displays exactly the information you need.

Also, the VW/Audi system that offers route changes around traffic jams is the most transparent.

Years ago, I would navigate using my smartphone. Haven't been doing that though. The only thing I am missing is voice input for addresses.

Unfortunately, map updates to car navigation systems are quite expensive.

Anecdote: My father used to drive an Audi that showed all kinds of places on the map: restaurants, gas stations, Audi dealers. All could be switched off.

Except cemeteries. Those were always shown, quite prominently. You were driving overland, and you were constantly seeing cemeteries.

Maybe Audi's contribution to traffic safety education...

Funny story :)

> Unfortunately, map updates to car navigation systems are quite expensive.

I thought cars would get their updates via a connection to a cell network?

No. You're buying a CD that is physically swapped for the old one.

Hmm? Most MMI in Audi's lately ( mine included ) have voice input. It does work really good, but only in German, though.

Here are some Google Maps things I would be pretty hard-pressed to give up:

- search along the route for things like gas stations, etc. (showing the amount of travel time added for each option)

- light grey lines showing me different turns I could take if I wanted to, and Google's estimate of how much slower they would be.

I'm glad to hear that these manufacturers aren't putting bad products in their cars though.

How is it superb if I can't even see building numbers when simply looking at the map?

FWIW, I've talked to a lot of people in logistics companies, and they seem to universally use HERE Map data - apparently because it's gradient information is significantly better than any of the alternatives, which can be used to optimise fuel consumption if you know the load weights and enough about the trucks to use that to provide hints to drivers about the optimal speeds to climb every hill. For long haul trucking that makes for significant fuel/money savings. (And here in Australia, pretty much everywhere that counts is at least 1000km away from everywhere else - and almost all freight moves on trucks.)

It's understandable though that Apple might prefer customers not to use Google services as they are direct competitors. But car manufacturers do not compete on the "digital maps" market (nor are they direct competitors to Apple or Google... yet), so I really don't get why they'd prefer to reinvent the wheel. Independance is one thing, but as a customer, as you said, I want the best experience for me, not the manufacturer.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly when I read that part.

It's not news, companies go away because they make repeatedly bad changes, one after the other, thinking they're doing the best ones.

I think German automakers are simply too late for the Tech train. Don't get me wrong, they'll sell lots of cars in the near/far future, but they'll probably become a "commodities" type of industry, like Oil.

> So you can't use Google Maps in CarPlay

Of course you can use Google Maps in Carplay. Just make sure you have location and background refresh enabled for the app and open it. It's that simple.

Have you tried it? I have and Google Maps doesn't actually show up on the car stereo's screen, only the phone's. But putting the app on the stereo's screen is the whole point of CarPlay.

Oh yes, you are right on the usage of the screen. I only use spoken directions while driving and those work fine, but right now Carplay only allows audio apps.

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