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Comment by josephagoss | Hacker News Reader

Should STEM be seen as desirable though?

It is one of those careers where you either make it before you are 25 or you are replaced.

STEM fields are extremely ageist where at 25 and onwards you have to look over your shoulder and watch out for the next 16 year old taking your job.

STEM for this reason is stressful and non sustainable.

Being in STEM and much older than 25 I feel that perhaps I made the wrong decision getting into STEM. Perhaps a people orientated career would have lasted me longer. I haven't been replaced yet, but can feel it coming...

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STEM != programmer. There are plenty of STEM jobs you can't even start until you're ~30.

Also, being replaced by a younger person is a function of the utility you provide vs. your cost. I work with plenty of "older" people, and some of them definitely get replaced. If you're not delivering, it doesn't make sense to keep you around if the budget is limited. "Older" specialists don't necessarily get replaced, as it's silly to imagine a kid can substitute specialized experience, but rather the development strategy pivots to something deliverable with the resources at hand for the given timeframe.

Edit: I probably fall into your "older" category...

Why 25? On my planet most people in STEM at 25 are students or entry-level employees with little if any clue about what they are going to do with their life?

The difference between STEM and non-STEM jobs is that as a worker, not a manager, you can't fake it for as long. Eventually people will notice that you're not keeping up with tech trends, learning, learning new things, or that your overall productivity is sub par (or in a lot of cases zero or even negative).

I see that as a plus for STEM jobs and more generally their sectors as it naturally rewards meritocracy and progress.

If you think you can't keep up with new grads, despite years more experience, I'm going to venture a guess that you don't find technology interesting enough to learn on its own.

> it naturally rewards meritocracy and progress

That's a funny way of saying "in-group beliefs and identity."

At some point we will discard this nonsense notion of meritocracy. If one exists, it's certainly not in tech.

> It is one of those careers where you either make it before you are 25 or you are replaced.

Unless you are some prodigy who started college early, you won't even have a PhD until you are 27 and many STEM fields tend to require multiple years of post-doc work before you can get a professorship due to the number of qualified candidates (unless you are working under a different definition of making it).

I have no idea what you're basing your comment on. My career started when I was 25* and it's only been getting better.

I never once had to look over my shoulder for fear of younger fresher talent.

Quite the opposite, in my experience, the younger and fresher talent tends to be less valuable.

The level of respect awarded to intermediate level developers is several times that which is awarded to junior developers. Junior developers are practically treated like replaceable labor.

* I took a few extra years to finish high school and university, so when I graduated I was already 25.

Next article - STEM is ageist and stressful.

I dunno about you, but I don't want a 16yo designing the bridges that I drive over.

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