Comment by hiram112 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by hiram112 | Hacker News Reader

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Yes this is what the left has been pushing in America. The whole issue, having never really crossed the minds of most people, suddenly became front and center with the help of a coordinated push by most of the liberal media.

I don't have anything against transgenders, nor do I really care what bathrooms or changing rooms someone decides to use. And I roll my eyes at the typical fear mongering by all the 'what about my little girl having to share a bathroom with a pedo tranny guy' on the right.

The issue I have is that the left doesn't understand science with regard to gender, nor do they realize all the negative consequences their own gender-less policies are going to cause.

We're already seeing biological men, claiming to be women, dominating women's sports. The Soviet bloc countries used to cheat at the Olympics, dosing their women with large amounts of androgens. Now shady teams will just use men who've decided they're women - how dare you tell me what gender I am - and sweep up the golds.

It won't be long until men start taking advantage of all the female scholarships, hiring quotas, and every other benefit feminists have pushed for women. And the minute these cases go to court, the same tactics the left used to push their agendas are going to bite them in the ass due to case precedence.

And now we're moving into to the idea that race can be 'decided' by the individual.

Personally, it's about time. As a white cis male, I'm tired of being the punching bag due my so-called privilege. I'm looking forward to my new job at Google @ $250k / year and masters at Harvard. Cause now, as I've decided to be an African-American female engineer, it appears the barriers to entry have just been lowered.

> The issue I have is that the left doesn't understand science with regard to gender

That seems to be the right's problem with all three of sex, ascribed gender, and gender identity. Heck, even more basically than the science around those, simply understanding the difference between the three concepts seems problematic.

> And now we're moving into to the idea that race can be 'decided' by the individual.

Actually, race in the US has generally been officially been about identity and not strictly governed by ancestry or non-identity ascribed status [0] for much longer than trans rights have even been a visible issue. And, despite that, the idea that someone can have a racial identity out of line with externally ascribed race is nonetheless not remotely widely accepted on the left, despite it being the long-standing official case; see the Rachel Dolezal case.

So, the idea that transgender rights, is the leading edge of a liberal scheme to impose acceptance of trans-racial identity is deeply disconnected from the facts.

[0] except that in some contexts Native American / Alaskan Native identity requires confirmation by ascribed status from a recognized group, because it operates somewhat like a nationality rather than other races.

> science around those,

there's no science around those, just word twisting and mental gymnastics. "Gender studies" and such are not science in any form.

> there's no science around those

There's considerable science around them and there interrelationship.

> "Gender studies" and such are not science in any form.

Gender (and, likewise, ethnic, etc.) studies is an interdisciplinary domain that includes both science and non-science elements; the science around sex, gender, and gender identity, though, is found in human biology, psychology/neuroscience, sociology, anthropology, and other fields, though it is, of course, often of interest to gender/women's/queer studies.

> Gender (and, likewise, ethnic, etc.) studies is an interdisciplinary domain ...

Yes, like astrology and homeopathy

Gender studies is probably not what GP had in mind. People who do gender studies don't generally consider their work science, from what I've seen.

In contrast, people whose work is more generally accepted as scientific, such as psychological and medical researchers, have certainly studied both gender identity and sex characteristics. I imagine (but might be wrong) that ascribed gender is more a topic for sociologists and other social scientists that empirically study social behavior or legal structures, but they definitely do study it.

> empirically study social behavior or legal structures, but they definitely do study it.

Astrologists study stars, too. Empirically.

Are the social sciences universally not science or just when they study the processes by which society ascribes genders to individuals?

Mostly universally

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability

> there's no science around those, just word twisting and mental gymnastics.

Why do you say that? What makes you so sure?

https://www.quora.com/Is-there-any-scientific-evidence-to-su...

Of course there's science around biological response to stimuli and its correlation to what person thinks of themselves, I wouldn't doubt that. What I'm sceptical about is "sex, ascribed gender, and gender identity." being so separate scientifically. I remember how about 10 years ago, everything seemed to be "a social concept", and I mean everything, including math and physics. Nowadays, it's all about 'identity'. Duh, I guess humanities "scholars" need something to write papers about.

> What I'm sceptical about is "sex, ascribed gender, and gender identity." being so separate scientifically.

Scientifically, they are (or, rather, gender identity and sex-correlated biological traits) are actually, apparently, fairly related, in ways which seem consistent with the idea that trans and non-binary gender identity is an expression of an underlying non-binary (if strongly bimodal) biological reality, and that ascribed gender based on a binary conception of sex is as poor a match for biology as it is for gender identity.

> Nowadays, it's all about 'identity'.

The three-way divide between objective traits, externally ascribed status, and identity or self-ascribed status, and it's generally importance a in uunderstandinghuman social interaction, is decidedly not a new thing.

> As a white cis male, I'm tired of being the punching bag due my so-called privilege.

Social justice is not a vast conspiracy to personally bully you. Christ.

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