Jeff Sessions Announces Justice Department Will Increase Asset Forfeiture
reason.com
reason.com
So, now, asset forfeiture can be a useful tool to undermine criminal activity (or any activity really) of a specific person. But this must happen in a fair trial (unless danger is imminent, under which one can argue in favor of indemnity). In this case there hasn't even been a charge brought forward. This alone is executive abuse of power, because a independent judicial system must only be allowed to take such actions.
Moreover, this will hit economically weak peak people hardest. Which further increases crime. It's a vicious circle.
The cynicism required to double down on this practice is a new low for Sessions, something I didn't think was possible.
> Sessions also formally withdrew a signature part of Attorney General Eric Holder's "Smart on Crime" initiative, which sought to target the most serious crimes and reduce the number of defendants charged with non-violent drug offenses that would otherwise trigger mandatory minimum sentences.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/12/politics/sessions-criminal-cha...
Without even considering the rest of the Trump administration, Sessions is taking this country backwards and encouraging policies we already know don't work.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/201...
That said, the reality is that the asset forfeiture regulations are not well-formed, and the oversight is very far from where it needs to be given the extreme power these laws give to the law enforcement authorities. As such, this effectively leads to a money grab in some areas.
This just strikes me as a case of making a potentially reasonable policy (if that's one's perspective on the world), but not creating the proper infrastructure to support it in a transparent way that mainstream citizens would find reasonable. As such, it is very prone to abuse.
Note also that the biggest hauls give some federal agencies a tremendous amount budget flexibility. Again, the oversight for this is not well-formed, perhaps intentionally.
Note that I personally do not agree with this line of thinking, but I just wanted to explain the perspectives of others who support these decisions.
CRIMINAL asset forfeiture they can seize drug money provided they prove an individual committed a crime and link that asset to said crime beyond a reasonable doubt
Civil Asset forfeiture they have do not have to prove a crime was committed, and the person has to prove they obtained the asset legally.
Criminal Asset forfeiture if you can not afford a lawyer one is provided to you, Civil Asset forfeiture you are simply SOL, so if they take $10,000 from you, and a lawyer want $10,000 to fight your case well why bother?
Civil Asset Forfeiture is a end run around due process and the constitution
For example, if my wife (or girlfriend or brother or associate) buys an airplane and I use it to fly drugs from Mexico into the US, then without forfeiture laws I could be charged, but the airplane wouldn't be seized. Is that right?
I've heard the argument that money is presumed guilty (or something to that affect) and I've never quite nailed down what that was all about. Does it make sense to you?
Also ends up with legal proceedings then not against you, but against your money: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._$124,700_in_U...
There are 2 common things that lead to a seizure, people have in their possession large sums of money or valubake assets while traveling. A minor crime in commited (like having a small qty of drugs) so the police take unrelated assets sometimes not even owned by the person. Example is when the government seized a persons home because their child had drugs in their room.
Most of the cases the government has to prove it is "more likely than not" the property is connected to a criminal event, this is a terribly low standard is given the number of laws on the books easily overcome by most prosecutors
However as IJ States in their report Policing for Profit
https://www.ij.org/images/pdf_folder/other_pubs/assetforfeit...
"if property is used illegally without the owner’s knowledge or consent, the burden is placed on the property owner to establish her innocence in court, not the government to prove otherwise. In other words, a property owner is guilty until proven innocent. "
They continue with
"In reality, few property owners, especially low-income individuals, can meet the burdens of civil forfeiture proceedings and often do not challenge seizures of their property. This is especially true when government seizes property the value of which would be greatly exceeded by the time, attorney fees and other expenses necessary to fight the forfeiture. As a result, many property owners do not and cannot challenge forfeitures, and the government obtains the property by default."
That is what happens most of the time, the process is soooo slanted in favor of the government people just give up and do not even attempt to fight. The government then twists that as being "proof" the property was gotten via illegal means and often cited as the "system working"
Be better.
Forfeiture, bombing the Middle East, travel bans, etc
So much stuff the current Administration is doing that the last Administration did...
and NOW people are losing their shit.
Just a bit questionable for a large part of the conversation to be started now, eh?
And yes people should be "losing their minds" over the elicitation in these tactics.
But there are a large number of people who are only NOW raising hell about drone bombs, travel bans, EO's, Scotus decisions, etc, etc, etc...
Where was the ruckus during the last 8 years of horrible decisions, bad direction, over reach, etc?
I'm not saying it doesn't need to be address... but the amount of "My Team" that goes on is... maddening...
Second, try using Reddit’s search function or Google’s trends app to see just how devastatingly demonstrably wrong your claims about interest in bombing the Middle East or civil asset forfeiture are.
Sort of looks like you’re the only one who’s just now giving a shit, eh?
Bombing the Middle East broke all records during the last Administration... not that this one won't continue to break records, but we were at war for the entire previous Administration and will probably remain so for this one...
I know of many cases of CAF during the previous Administration. I'm sad that the current administration doesn't seem to be restoring law and order to the degree I had hoped they would.
I've given a shit for a long time. I live in a heavily one-sided state and I sit on the other side - so, for the most part, my vote doesn't matter.
What DOES matter is that the stuff people are RAGING MAD!!!! about is stuff that, for a large part, is no different from before. You can nit-pick over minor differences between Travel bans... but there was NO care about those bans for the 8 years prior.
My main point here... is people pick a team... and then lose their shit when their team loses. What's important isn't the Travel Ban (or whatever). Whats important is the "Other Guy's Quarterback" is calling the plays. Even if they are the same plays "My Quarterback" would have chosen - or has chosen repeatedly - NOW we are going to "resist".
The hypocrisy is maddening - from both "sides".
And you'll note, they're not even giving a shit about asset forfeiture, or travel bans—they're giving a shit about people complaining about Trump.
Holder and Lynch at least showed some signs of slowly creeping away from the failed 1980s policies, such as reducing mandatory minimums (http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/12/politics/holder-mandatory-mini...) and letting states experiment a little bit (albeit grumpily in Lynch's case in particular) with legal marijuana laws (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/29/justic...).
Jeff Sessions in contrast is pretty much doubling down on failed 1980s policy. A more trivial but telling example is how Sessions completely embraced D.A.R.E. -- a program that pretty much has been proven over and over again as ineffective.(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448384/)
I hope DARE doesn't return - as you said, the War on Drugs is about as successful as Prohibition... aka: not remotely.
There are many things I like and dislike about the current administration... I don't think I'd like a doubling down on a failed War on Drugs.
Definitely, neither party (at the national level in particular) has been doing what most policy wonks I've read would believe is the correct thing... and I've been reading for decades how America's criminal justice policies (from its high prison rate to horrible policies like civil asset forfeiture) are often ineffective, expensive, and prone to corruption.
Unfortunately, Americans historically has rewarded "tough on crime" stances at the ballot box, definitely in the 1980s and 1990s from what I remember. That probably honestly is the root cause. Even today, a majority of Americans still generally want to be "tough" on violent criminals, even if "tough" might be ineffective. (https://www.vox.com/2016/9/7/12814504/mass-incarceration-pol...) The good news is that Americans are changing their views on non-violent drug offenders -- there's some agreement that locking them up may not be the best thing.
For this particular issue, there pretty much is bipartisan agreement that civil asset forfeiture is horrible. (https://www.cato.org/blog/84-americans-oppose-civil-asset-fo...).
I've heard of some states partially reforming civil asset forfeiture recently -- as it seems typical in politics these days, a hodgepodge of states, led by neither one party or the other (often the reform bills are with bipartisan support), lead the way.
— Reagan attorney general Richard Thornburgh in 1989
Replace "drug dealer" with "minority individual" and this quote would be as accurate today as it was in 1989.
I hope that does not come across as sardonic. If a functional mechanism to curb these kinds of excesses does not exist anymore, that is something which we will have to come to terms with as a society.
Really? It's the same as it's ever been...they want more money, more control and more time.
This decline shows itself in people like Trump or the Brexit.
Besides, I think the "decline" is a bit overstated. America isn't going anywhere. Things start getting tough and the guns will come out and they have a lot of those. Besides maybe Anglo Saxons shouldn't rule the whole world. And really nothing lasts forever. China might supplant the west as global leader, this was predicted I think two centuries ago, but it won't happen for a while.
The problem is that "Asset Forfeiture" appears to work in making drug dealing (and other black market criminal activities) a much more risky business.
The question is how do we balance something that works with restoring property to law-abiding citizens when police make a mistake?
There seems to be little to no process around this.
There will be resistance to installing processes because criminals will use it to reclaim their dirty money and more process will cost time and money, making forfeiture less effective.
Citation, I have read alot of reports and studies on this subject none of them support our position
On a trip to Montreal this weekend I seriously considered just staying...
If you subscribe to the view that the war on drugs is/was chiefly motivated by white supremacy and the preservation of a minority right-wing establishment (as Ehrlichman apparently did [1]), it's arguably been a success.
The administration is supported by a minority of the electorate, the administration is a right-wing regime filled with unrepentant bigots, the administration wants the war on drugs to be maintained and intensified. These things fit together in a very unsurprising way, once one can get over the shock of just how petty and vile the fabulously wealthy elites running the government turn out to be.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ehrlichman#War_on_drugs
Is it? Why don't we try and see?
You’re not doing any better going up and down this thread punching straw men and condescendingly misinterpreting comments.
They didn’t even characterize a group of people as evil!
Jeff Sessions is just a guy. An old guy, from a different time with who's opinions you don't agree. He won't be here long so don't get all worked up.
There are plenty of decent men from that time. Jeff Sessions isn't one of them
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/12/...
See also "racist"
"Hissy fit" is a gendered insult. You're suggesting that anyone who admits that Sessions has bad intentions is acting like a menstruating woman. It's really offensive. Maybe English isn't your first language, maybe you didn't understand this. You aren't elevating the level of discourse here.
...the idea that some group of people are inherently evil cannot be logically argued...
We're talking about one person in this case, and he's had a long career which makes the argument (that he acts with malice aforethought, that he's chosen to do the more-evil option over and over again) more strongly than any "logic" anyone's likely to construct for a message board post.
I really would like to see some stats before forming an opinion on emotions alone. After all, it was emotions that landed us here.
Some people just don't want to rejoin society. Why choose life when you've got heroin? Pretty sure that rehab doesn't have a good success rate in those situations.
I will say that I can see the damage here in the Detroit region from another untreated addiction epidemic, the crack crisis from the 80s. So much of the regions ills come from treating it as a criminal justice problem instead of a health crisis. A generation was lost to either the drugs themselves or the war on drugs.
I'm not saying incarceration is the answer. I'm trying to do research to see what might be better.
Everyone downvoting, thanks for the negative feedback on someone trying to form a fact based stance on a touchy subject and asking questions.
I dont have the stats you are looking for, but even if it is ineffective and some people do not want to rejoin society, how is locking in them in a cage an ethical response to that?
http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/04/18/524380027/i...
Especially when coupled with "cheaper".
The 95% drop in HIV is a great side stat, but really looking more on stats for rehab programs.
I suppose what I am suggesting is that this is sufficient evidence for you to stop casting doubt and go find evidence for it if you want to continue questioning treatment.
Otherwise you get to argue by shouting at the monkeys to dance as you demand ever higher quality proof that you are wrong.
I'll stop shouting at the monkeys now.
Heroin abuse is in the extreme minority when it comes to opioid abuse. You need to get rid of the image in your head of the strung-out heroin addict lazing about in a grubby drug den. A majority of the opioid epidemic these days is actually from prescription opioids like Oxycontin , Vicodin, and similar drugs. So there's plenty of high functioning blue and white collar opioid addicts out there with plenty to lose.
If there's someone on drugs that wants to be on drugs, I think a real possibility is that we keep giving them drugs until they want to change. Remove the criminal element and possibility of disease and adultered drugs be having the government provide the drugs. Then give them help once someone is ready for help.
Just spit balling here. Maybe I'm wrong and forced rehab has better efficacy rates.
It's a lot more effective (and just) than locking people up.