Comment by jk2323 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jk2323 | Hacker News Reader

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Touchée. I give you a point here. But there is the Idea of of the four freedoms for Europe. This may be a good thing or not (I think it is). But If you are part of Europe, you either take all or none. And if some Brexiters are claiming "look, we can get the same deal that Japan is getting this year" then they are delusional. The reason why Japan can get such a deal is because Japan is not a geographic part of Europe.

There are things that I don't like about the EU. Especially:

* Bureaucracy

* They spent 40% of their budget for agriculture subsidies.

* Now we have open boarders for immigrants from very violent and tribal societies. (You can downvote me for this if you like).

But here are many positive things. Freedom of movement. You can work, retire or open a business in any EU country that you want. Open skies - very cheap airfares (which will hurt the UK a lot).

What happens just this year is mind blowing.

* Free trade agreement with Japan

* Potential free trade agreement with Mercosur countries

* No roaming charges for cell phones anymore

* PSD2 for Fintech (Banks have to grant access to bank accounts for fintechs)

* Money Wires are very cheap or free within the EU. They can still take a day or two. Starting November Banks must offer "instant EU money wires". I think the time is less than a minute. Less than a bitcoin transaction takes to process.

* Military Headquarter in the EU, beginning of an EU army

Don't write the EU off. Nobody knows the future but for me the Brexit seems like madness.

Regarding EU bureaucracy, isn't it clear that some is required?

Otherwise how do you replace, for example, 28 different national systems for classifying bananas with a single classification without a certain amount of bureaucracy? You either hive massive multilateral discussions among 28 national bureaucracies or you get rid of the individual national burocrats and delegate this function to Brussels.

I love the bananna thing btw - it's a long time favourite of EU haters as an example of EU overreach. Europhobic UK newspapers have milked it for years - out-of-control bureaucrats making up useles regulations and creating red-tape. But they never mention that it replaced was 28 individual national banana classifcations.

Note that the "banana regulation" is actually no longer in force, because "EU bureaucrats" got tired hearing it dragged out in every single debate.

The result is that the content of the regulation have become the de-facto standard in the industry that everyone is following voluntarily.

> The result is that the content of the regulation have become the de-facto standard in the industry that everyone is following voluntarily.

It was even the other way round. Lobbyists of merchants wanted cheaper transport costs and solved it on a EU level.

It was both ways around. The wanted it, got it, then continued using it after it was no longer official.

Exactly this.

And the UK is going to learn about it the hard way (if it goes ahead with Brexit, less likely by the day). The Euratom debacle is already showing that.

I am surprised that you left the ruin of Greece off your list of things that you don't like about the EU.

Well, I think it was the Greeks who ruined Greece (with the help of Goldman Sachs). Greece should never have joined the Euro (thanks Goldman Sachs). It is also a very corrupt country for EU standards. The good thing is: It is a small country. I think things will improve in the long run.

But since you mentioned Greece. What about Puerto Rico? Illinois?

So it was fine for Italy to join?

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