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Comment by stenl | Hacker News Reader

It's fine to disagree with his political views. That's precisely his point: the freedom to disagree is the foundation of a free society.

What facts were distorted? That he was jailed, multiple times, for defending freedom of expression? That he died in custody? That his wife Liu Xia was under house arrest for years without charges? Or was it his role during the Tiananmen protests and subsequent massacre? That he negotiated the free passage of students from Tiananmen, saving many from the advancing tanks?

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There are certain views that should never ever be publicly stated, e.g. Liu said China needs to be colonized for 300 years to get better, is it just free of speech? sound quite repressive to me.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/dec/15/nobel-...

> There is certain views that should never ever be publicly stated

Who gets to decide what is or is not allowed to be spoken?

> Liu said China needs to be colonized for 300 years to get better, is it just free of speech? sound quite repressive to me.

Even if it is repressive, preventing him to say it by arresting him and his family is not repressive to you?

> Even if it is repressive, preventing him to say it by arresting him and his family is not repressive to you?

Are you sure he was arrest because of saying that? Do you have any facts to support your view?

> Liu said China needs to be colonized for 300 years to get better, is it just free of speech? sound quite repressive to me.

Do you think Liu deserves Nobel Peace Prize after saying that publicly?

Remember that the argument was "There is certain views that should never ever be publicly stated".

> Do you think Liu deserves Nobel Peace Prize after saying that publicly?

I don't care one way or the other, it's the Nobel committee's decision who they award the prize to. It makes no difference to me. It doesn't make what he, or any other Nobel Laureate say any more true or worthy of consideration.

> Remember that the argument was "There is certain views that should never ever be publicly stated".

There was no argument, it was a statement. If you want to argue in favor of why some views should never be publicly stated and who is gonna decide what is/is not allowed, go ahead.

you came to this thread largely because Liu is not a random dude on street, he had the nobel peace prize. if you want to argue "I don't care", you need to back yourself up better.

the core issue here is simple: how come such a man who repeatedly made such extremist styles comments in public got awarded the nobel peace prize.

> the core issue here is simple: how come such a man who repeatedly made such extremist styles comments in public got awarded the nobel peace prize.

That is your issue, not mine.

> you came to this thread largely because Liu is not a random dude on street, he had the nobel peace prize.

I am here because of the outrageous comment you made about ‘certain views that should never ever be publicly stated’. If you can’t defend your opinions then why are you here? Can you, or can you not explain how do you support your extremist views?

what? saying "certain views should never ever be publicly stated" is outrageous?

what a joke.

You can't defend your position. That's what I thought.

A joke indeed.

I said "certain views should never ever be publicly stated", and suddenly I need to defend such position?

If you live in a society that allows you to publicly state anything without consequences, I'd say that is horrible.

If you live in the US, try talk about some racial stuff and bring in the same colonization elements in, see how that is going to end.

Time to grow up talk like an adult.

I think the consequences should be decided by the people, rather than an what must be a very insecure central power

Right. And you still know something is not acceptable by the people, and you probably wont go across that line. Same thing in China. Many of Liu's opinions are hated by Chinese people in general, not by the central power.

That is the exact consequence Liu got - he is never respected by the Chinese people in general. Why Chinese people should respect someone who openly suggested that they should be colonized by the west for 300 years?

For his sentence, no one in this thread ever supported that, for me, it is as bad as giving this man the nobel peace prize.

> I said "certain views should never ever be publicly stated", and suddenly I need to defend such position?

Yes. You must defend every word you say.

> Time to grow up talk like an adult.

You mean like an adult who can't defend his/her positions and is willing to send to jail everyone who disagrees with him/her? What a wonderful "adult" you must be.

It absolutely is outrageous. You cannot put any limits on free speech in a free society. The people should monitor their own behavior, not the state.

> You cannot put any limits on free speech in a free society

But that doesn't exist anywhere in the world. The closest is the US, but even their extremist version of freedom of speech has government imposed limits.

Well right, we strive to do the best we can. Threat of harm is obviously limited due to the implication of action. I was more referring to the exchange of ideas between people, which should never be restricted.

> I don't care one way or the other, it's the Nobel committee's decision who they award the prize to. It makes no difference to me. It doesn't make what he, or any other Nobel Laureate say any more true or worthy of consideration.

Yea. That is what I want to learn. You do not care about the Prize.

> If you want to argue in favor of why some views should never be publicly stated and who is gonna decide what is/is not allowed, go ahead.

It seems that is you want to know about it. Probably I misunderstood you. I have no interest :P. So we can stop here.

> Who gets to decide what is or is not allowed to be spoken?

You can spend your entire life arguing whether it is good or bad for China to be colonized by the west for 300 years, I am not going to waste my time on that.

And by your words no one else is allowed to either? Why?

Sure, it might be a stupid argument, why is it banned again?

Oh, you just don't like it.

>Who gets to decide what is or is not allowed to be spoken?

In America we have helpful groups like Southern Poverty Law Center which direct us to which ideas are bad speech that shouldn't be allowed. Maybe China should follow our example and privatize their speech curatorship police, then they would be more free.

You are free to disregard the southern poverty law center if you'd like, and the last time I checked, they can't throw you in jail.

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