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Comment by aphextron | Hacker News Reader

>This is the wheel of capitalism literally coming to a halt because the oligarchs are staring each other down waiting for someone to go first.

This makes a lot of sense. I constantly get the feeling in the US that we don't actually "do" anything anymore. And I don't just mean manufacturing. You look around at the rest of the world and infrastructure programs are at the forefront of every expanding economy. China, India, Turkey. All pouring hundreds of billions into great works at home and abroad.

Where are the massive capital expenditures we saw in the 19th and 20th centuries? America has the largest population of highly skilled, financially endowed consumers on earth yet the most that any genius Venture Capitalist can figure out to do with these billions in free money from the fed is come up with a new skin for IRC.

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"The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads," said Jeffrey Hammerbacher.

For the last decade, the "best minds" (by one common measure) have been going to hedge funds - helping a small group turn money into more money. It's not a sustainable strategy, and countries that take a different approach will eventually become the economic leaders.

Peak Gametheory.

>You look around at the rest of the world and infrastructure programs are at the forefront of every expanding economy. China, India, Turkey. All pouring hundreds of billions into great works at home and abroad.

So is the US government! They poured $1,4 trillion into Iraq and Afghanistan.

insightful. care to explain what was the expected return on this investment?

To be greeted as liberators.

> Where are the massive capital expenditures we saw in the 19th and 20th centuries?

Those expenditures are still around: they built the roads, runways and skyscrapers that we all use today.

Why do developing countries spend a lot more on development than developed countries do? That's almost a tautology.

A lot of the infrastructure we use today is so old that it's crumbling, and has been for years. Few people are interested in doing anything to fix it.

During the last administration, we had a fake 'shovel-ready' infrastructure program to boost economic growth. I say fake, because mostly very-visible PR projects such as changes to roads and parks got funded. Not real infrastructure such as sewer plants, under-street pumping stations, painting the underside of bridges and other invisible but essential projects that have been 'shovel-ready' for a decade but still undone.

Biggest waste of public funds in a generation. And mostly used to build further infrastructure such as roads, burdening the maintenance budget even more. Instead of helping.

> Biggest waste of public funds in a generation

A certain little jaunt through the middle east would like to have a word with you.

Ha! But did that accelerate our maintenance backlog? Never mind the money; its about the physical infrastructure we've got to keep up.

Nearly all of that spending was simply added directly the national debt, very little actually came out of the general fund.

Surely there are some negative side effects of more a trillion dollars of debt!

I'm sorry I'm taking your bait, but obviously it is the same waste of money whether you pay for it with cash or on your credit card.

>Why do developing countries spend a lot more on development than developed countries do? That's almost a tautology.

I don't think it's as simple as "we're developed now". Is there some arbitrary set point at which a country is completely "developed" and we should just stop doing things? Why is there such an aversion in this society to "spending money" as if it's something that we are losing rather than simply putting people to work and generating economic output. The complete gridlock which has gripped the US over the past 40 years has left vast amounts of the population sick and dying with no hope for anything.

We do not need any more infrastructure because there is _enough_ infrastructure. And material goods, for that matter.

Do you want a limitless money sinkhole with largest positive externalities and quality of life effects? Try science.

There might be "enough" infrastructure, but it could be maintained a lot better. The power grid could also use some modernization. If you have money to sink you could also try building lots and lots of solar panels, batteries, and wind turbines.

Agree with the big-picture areas that you've highlighted, and it's not like there are not local issues that need addressing.

St. Petersburg shut down a sewage treatment plant last year, and in the same year spilled 200 million gallons of sewage into the bay. For that, the city faced an $820,000 fine, which seems incredibly light. Just Wednesday this week, the city spilled 50,000 gallons of 'mostly treated' sewage into the bay. I can't image that St. Petersburg is the only city with this type of problem; though, I hope I'm wrong.

"We do not need any more infrastructure because there is _enough_ infrastructure. And material goods, for that matter."

.... Kind of, and much of what we have could be upgraded. Some folks can't get clean water out of their taps (lead!), some folks have really crappy internet (dial-up or otherwise slow speeds). I'm pretty sure some areas could use an electrical grid upgrade. Railroad tracks laid long ago now block traffic and some crossings have a lot of accidents, and could be rerouted (some communities have done so, such as lafayette, Indiana). Many of our bridges are in disrepair.

Yes, but all those (except maybe internet) are routine maintenance-level tasks, as opposed to megaprojects.

Tell that to the hyperloop guys and watch them despair.

Happily. Who needs hyperloop when airline tickets are this cheap?

There are places around the edges that need major work. Our population is expanding, that means we need new houses for the new people. Once in a while houses burn down or is otherwise destroyed. Likewise water treatment plants need maintenance and upgrades, and sometimes we need a new one; but for the most part people have perfectly safe water.

On the whole though there are a lot of perfectly good roads and houses that just need a little work to keep them up. It is better to not build more than we need. I could tear down my perfectly good 2000 sq ft house and build a 4000 square ft house - but my current house is big enough for my needs so I'd rather sit back and relax.

> Where are the massive capital expenditures we saw in the 19th and 20th centuries?

we have been at "war" for 15 years

Not the US government, but Elon's gigafactory and SpaceX are fairly large technological and manufacturing developments.

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