Comment by jaredreich | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jaredreich | Hacker News Reader

Hi everyone, author of pell.js here, thanks for all the positive AND critical feedback. Hey, this is Hacker News, how boring would it be if everyone's comment was just "Cool" or "Good job"? I love hearing the gripes and individualized complaints of smart people that have worked on similar (and much larger) projects.

I'd like to mention a few things about pell.js and it's goals:

- It was not made to be the most full-featured editor out there

- It was not made to fight with or worry about browser inconsistencies (browsers are converging, quickly too)

- It was made to demonstrate the underlying simplicity of something that looks like magic to most beginner developers (including myself) and to teach people how to use `contentEditable` and `execCommand` via a tiny, extremely readable codebase

- It was made for people who need just a basic WYSIWYG editor in their app/site/whatever and who care about bundle size (PWA's anyone?)

Over time, many of the inconsistencies and issues will get fixed or implemented in pell, but the goal of remaining tiny yet functional will always remain paramount.

I wonder if you had branded this project along the lines of "You Might Not Need jQuery"[0] you might not have gotten so many comments dismissing it as not a "proper solution" since it "only uses contentEditable"...

I think it's good to showcase new ways of solving old problems using the latest in browser tech.

[0] http://youmightnotneedjquery.com

Don't expect the browser vendors to fix contentEditable or inconsistencies for you, this has been the struggle of WYSIWYG editors for as long as they have existed and it really hasn't gotten a whole lot better. You will quickly find out that by the time your getting close to fix those inconsistencies, 4-6 years have passed and your right up there with the rest of the editors in terms of size and complexity.

PS: Also working on one of those bloaty editors.

I will most definitely expect browser vendors to perform these fixes. I think you've fallen behind on what's taking place in the browser world right now, a huge percentage of users are on evergreen webkit browsers (and increasing rapidly). The next 4-6 years of web will NOT look like the last 4-6 years of web. And this doesn't even account for bundled browser implementations (electron, etc.)

I'd also be optimistic about a future with sane browser WYSIWYG editing, but it has been an uphill battle. I know the W3C Editing task force [0] has been trying to push the limits, but very few successful outcomes so far.

[0] http://w3c.github.io/editing/

And those evergreen browsers are still doing terrible things when it comes to contentEditable, and they don't really have a lot of choice, because it's an underspecified poorly conceptualized idea that really doesn't leave them much room to things right. There's some work happening on the W3C editing taskforce to improve the concepts involved, but that's also moving at a glacial pace, and having to struggle with browser vendors at every steps.

So again, don't suggest we (editor implementors) are clueless or behind the times. We happen to have spent quite a bit of time on this stuff. We know it.

Again, you are getting offended. Not once did I suggest editor implementors are clueless. They're likely some of the best and sharpest developers out there. Please, as I mentioned earlier, take this project with a grain of salt.

By "fallen behind" I meant still making the assumption that many users are still using outdated browsers. This is not the case anymore, especially in the last year. And because of this fact, many WYSIWYG editors might be implementing a lot of cross-platform bloat that just isn't necessary any more. Rather than raging, perhaps browse through the ProseMirror source and see what you can remove as "obsolete" code.

ProseMirror was started 2 years ago, initially only targeted evergreen browser, and has recently grudgingly added support for IE11 because customers asked for it. But yeah, I guess for some parts of some of the older projects this may apply.

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