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Comment by djsumdog | Hacker News Reader

I really like how you broke down the sources, statistics and try to put things in perspective. I really tend to agree here.

There is no mention of pay in this article, but there are plenty of other sources that dispel the myth that women get paid less than men (it's more like people of lower confidence simply do not ask for as much money -- both men and women; see The Confidence Gap).

I also think part of the reason we see fewer women in Tech is they don't want shitty jobs. We have everything from Dilbert to Office Space to We The Robots, all showing how terrible life in a cube can be. Women often take jobs that pay less but are more fulfilling (teachers, nurses, non-profits).

If we want more women in tech, I think we'd need to make tech more fulfilling and less miserable for everyone.

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> the myth that women get paid less than men

This is not true.

On the experimental side, studies show candidates with female names are rated lower and recieve lower starting salaries to male candidates with identical CVs (see Moss-Racusin et al. 2012)

On the statistical side, check out the data from;

- the UK's ONS (http://www.resolutionfoundation.org/media/blog/the-gender-pa...),

- the OECD (https://data.oecd.org/earnwage/gender-wage-gap.htm)

You may have your pet theories as to what explains the statistics, and some of them may partially explain some aspects of a complex phenomenon.... but the fundamental finding that people are treated differently based on who they are is repeated over and over, both in research and in human experience.

Some more studies on the subject:

[1] People in gender-incongruent roles penalised more heavily for mistakes (Brescoll, Dawson, & Uhlmann, 2010).

[2] Voluble women perceived as less competent and less suitable leaders, inverse true for men (Brescoll, 2011).

[3] Women who succeed in male-dominated fields percieved as not likeable (Heilman et al, 2004).

[4] Students question the competence of female teachers who evaluate them negatively, less so than male teachers (Sinclair & Kunda 2000).

A study with Resumes/CVs is a fun thought experiment, but it's not reality. You need to compare actual wages in actual jobs.

> You may have your pet theories as to what explains the statistic

Please avoid this race to the bottom. I could be wrong. You could be wrong. No need to say I have "pet theories." The EPA once told DDT was perfectly safe to spray around humans. We are all wrong about something.

"..under this metric for people with a college degree, there is virtually no pay gap at all."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-w...

"When controlled for education and career choices, women make 93% "of what men earned"

http://www.aauw.org/files/2013/02/graduating-to-a-pay-gap-th... (p20, 34)

The Confidence Gap is a great article which talks about how people are more likely to get high wages if they have confidence and ask for it, and how women have trouble with portraying confidence without being perceived as bitchy:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/05/the-con...

Each of your sources says there is still a gender wage gap in the range of 5-9% after controlling for education, etc.

You could say "the myth that women earn 77% of what men earn", but it is not correct to call the gender wage gap a myth.

> The Confidence Gap is a great article which talks about how people are more likely to get high wages if they have confidence and ask for it, and how women have trouble with portraying confidence without being perceived as bitchy

... So women are being paid less than men?

> A study with Resumes/CVs is a fun thought experiment, but it's not reality.

Dismissing a single actual experiment with as "a fun thought experiment" is neither factual nor rational. In reality there are many experiments.

You can take as much offence at my use of the term "pet theories" as you like, but until you present a rational argument that's all they remain. Unsubstantiated opinions are reasonably described as "pet theories".

Your own links clearly state a gender pay gap. I'm not sure what argument to make at this point. Maybe you could give me some guidance as to what areas remain in dispute?

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