Silicon Valley's cultural problem is so severe it needs a reset | Hacker News Reader

Silicon Valley's cultural problem is so severe it needs a reset

cnbc.com

36 pointsurahara35 comments

This is really counter productive. Silicon Valley's problem isn't going to get better if the media paints the entire place as being hostile to women. That's just going to scare them off, and that'll make matters worse. Is intentional sexism endemic in SV? I doubt it. There are clearly some bad apples, but there are bad apples in every industry. Many/most tech companies have at least gone to great lengths to accommodate and recruit women and minorities. Compare that to law, finance, medicine, government, and every other industry dominated by men. Silicon Valley is a great place for women to work, regardless of its problems. The best, and probably only way to fix it is to bring more women in.

Talking about the problem is healthy and usually a part of a solution. Real-life sexism is definitely worse and times more scary than public attempts to fix it. Bringing more women helps, but if the culture wouldn’t change, they’ll just leave.

Articles like this don't constitute "talking about the problem". It's mud slinging that paints the entire industry poorly.

Not to mention, these venues will consider the news to be "ancient history" in a month, leaving nothing but mud stains and hurt feelings (I'm personally tired of being painted as a sexist asshole who "just doesn't get it" because I'm a white male) in its wake. The "discussion" will be over, and nobody will be better off because of it.

Good. Feelings need to be hurt. People need to be uncomfortable. Mud slinging is necessary to get people to give a shit and do something.

Uncomfortable and hurt people are never going to react in a positive way, and expecting otherwise is going to result in disappointment.

They'll certainly do something, but most people who care about the issue won't like what is done. They may:

Become even more hostile about the subject.

Be even less willing to open the ranks to more women.

Double down on "it's someone else's problem".

Worse, people who currently give a shit and act on that may just... stop. "I support their work and I just get attacked for it, why bother?"

>Worse, people who currently give a shit and act on that may just... stop. "I support their work and I just get attacked for it, why bother?"

Is it worth having allies who hold their support hostage?

Your argument sounds similar to those who opposed the civil rights movement.

>I'm personally tired of being painted as a sexist asshole who "just doesn't get it" because I'm a white male

Iuno, I'm a "white male" and I don't have this problem.

The vast majority of people in the industry don't do this. But it only takes a few rare individuals to create a situation where almost every woman has at least one experience of it. It's good if we can avoid sweeping these things under the rug. But it's still the case that nearly everyone in the industry is not going to sexually harass women, and it's important to acknowledge this.

At the same time, sweeping the problem under the rug and pretending it doesn't happen isn't going to fix anything either. At least with this approach, those in charge are pressured to do something about it.

I definitely don't think it should be swept under the rug, but I don't think it needs to be broadcast through the mass media for all the world to see and for the entire industry to be condemned as misogynists. This shit is awful and it needs to be dealt with appropriately. If executives don't want to do that, then they should be held accountable too. But I think there's a way to do those things without shaming the 99% people who have nothing to do with any of this.

Not talking about it publicly is very close to sweeping under the rug. Important problems like this one should be discussed publicly as much as possible. This raises awareness and stimulates the search for solutions. Recently, womens' public posts led to real action started to be taken to address the problem. Besides, for many women this public talk is currently the only thing they can do in their defense.

But they're not shaming us. I don't feel shamed at all by the coverage. I'm not one of the people they're talking about; I know I'm not, so I don't feel upset by the coverage.

I think they are talking about you, or are at least playing extremely fast and loose with phrasing.

Are you part of "Silicon Valley," which "has a culture problem?" Are you one of "the men" in "the workforce"?

I don't feel ashamed. But this is, to some degree, slander.

And I don’t. I know they aren’t talking about me. Because I don’t do those things.

> At least with this approach, those in charge are pressured to do something about it.

Personally, I doubt it. The media pressure will disappear in a few months, and short of a very public rape, will not appear again for years. That's how the modern media works - come in while the topic is hot, stick around and fling poo for a month or so, then leave it for something more salacious.

Denying there is a problem is counter productive...

I'm in no way excusing any of this behavior but I do not see this is particularly an SV problem. I see this as a power corruption problem.

Men (and women) with a lot of power can get into a mindset where they think the rules don't apply to them. I don't think this is unique to SV at all. You see it with powerful politicians and powerful and/or very wealthy individuals across the private sector.

Power corrupts. One of the oldest flaws in human nature.

Isn't California/Silicon Valley really liberal? You'd think this would be one of the places who are the least sexist.

People tend to rationalize inconsistent behavior when money/power is involved. Just look at what San Francisco, the home of the 60's counterculture movement, has now become.

No, it's not "really liberal." SV especially I'd describe as more libertarian: constrained taxes and marginally socially tolerant with a sprinkling of lip service to liberal social issues.

The rest of California is a little bit liberal in some areas, but mainly in aggregate it's slightly to the left of the American mainstream. Which puts it firmly on the right, in my opinion.

A lot of people in SV today are transplants.

"Methinks you doth protest too much" may apply.

I think a lot of tech heads would actually appreciate the bankers cum VCs to go away and take their bro culture with them.

Right. Everyone forgets - or deliberately sweeps under the carpet - that this is not geek culture. Silly Valley was invaded and colonized, at the point that the tools got good enough that there were no barriers to entry, coinciding with there being too much money chasing any possible investment opportunity. You have to actually be an engineer to write C but any fratboy can crank out RoR while chugging brewskis. Or be an "evangelist" or a "designer" or a "program manager" or any of the other weird fluffy job titles that have sprung up, all of which really mean not-an-engineer.

Except VC money pays for all the jobs... then no men or women would want to work here.

That would be great.

There's been a massive influx of badly motivated people in the last decade. It's changed the culture and the output of SV profoundly.

https://medium.com/@micah/silicon-valley-is-dead-88ed34d943d...

So we should just kick out everyone who came here for a job over the past decade? Does anyone think before coming up with policy reforms or do they just spew out the first thing they can think of that gives them the moral high ground?

  > "...no men or women would want to work here."

  > "That would be great."

  > "I knew it. The liberal conspiracy wants to deport my children."

We definitely need to do something to abate this problem. I'm not sure what the good solutions are. I also don't know whether it's getting worse or people disclosing it more openly.

It's crucial that women feel welcome and not be targeted for uninitiated sexual advances. It's necessary for the continued advancement of our economy.

That said, in addition to having avenues for exposing these abuses, I think it would be helpful to know the extent of the problem so we would have a better idea how to manage it.

For example, the problem is way different if < 1% of people engaged in the behavior vs 10%

At 10% as a society and industry we can't afford to "just get rid of those people" That's just burying our heads in the sand and ignoring a large problem. We'd better come up with other solutions like intervention, and education and on-going treatment and a way for people to recover.

If it's fewer than 1% then maybe it's a personal issue versus an ingrained social issue.

Either way, we need to understand the scope of the issue in order to understand it better and address it more effectively. As it is, it's these one offs where single individuals are addressed but larger social issues remain unaddressed.

There's a difference between a Silicon Valley VC cultural problem and a "working at a Silicon Valley technology company" cultural problem (and even if we are talking about VC-funded technology companies). Those are really two different environments, and it does no one a service to conflate the two.

Oh good, this is my non-karma account.

The SV sexism thing is a confluence of several vicious mutually-reinforcing factors:

- Smart dudes who didn't see their intelligence sexually rewarded as much as they thought it deserved to be in their teen/college years, then feeling their oats a bit when they become sought-after developers

- the various social pathologies that can arise from this, from feigned ignorance to creepy come-ons

- Femininist envy of men daring to make good money without actually being high-status

- various parties being insecure and trigger-happy on lashing out

- tech being one of the very weird parts of the world where the basement-dweller "While you were partying, I studied the blade" resentment attitude actually has marketable value, if that blade was devops/ML/latest JS framework.

Look, most parties involved are being really shitty to each other, but they mostly do it because they feel that they themselves have been injured or fear they are in danger of such. I don't imagine anyone's planning on stopping any time soon.

I do hope that the well-adjusted reader of this comment, however, will take it upon him or herself to be kind as and when they can.

Frankly I cannot wait for the bubble to burst. Some good folks - old skool geeks - will get hurt I know and I'm sorry for that. But it will be worth it, and then we can go back to the important things: Star Trek, AD&D and making actual technology not just new ways to show ads or steal personal info.

We need a cultural revolution.

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