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Comment by tangue | Hacker News Reader

Enough for proving than human pollination, though not optimal, is possible.

Why even is it under discussion. Just stop harming the bees.

When they are gone, so are we.

Bigger, more profitable yeilds is not what we should be focusing on. Saving the bees and humanity in the process is slightly more important imho

Pesticides are not enough to explain all the harm to bees. Fungus and parasites can destroy colonies too. We have to consider how to live without as many bees as we have now, because we don't know how to save all the bees.

The right thing to do is it wait until all the conclusive evidence is in. It is anti-science to not think about the corporate bottom line.

It _may_ not be caused by the pesticide, changing or stopping the use of the pesticide could not be necessary and then we would have accidentally saved the world while having less profit.

I get that this post is sarcastic/satirical, but it still feels like you're disagreeing with me?

> Pesticides are not enough to explain all the harm to bees.

How do you know this? Because of the possibility (and it will always exist) of something else able to harm bees we should take no action?

> "we don't know how to save all the bees"

Is this forgone conclusion? Sounds like you are begging the question [1]

I am reminded of, http://i.imgur.com/couhw4k.jpg

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

I'm not saying the bees will definitely die off. I'm saying we don't know. We need to be prepared in case it happens.

Edit: I definitely didn't say that we should take no action.

Edit2: If you're asking "what else has been killing bees en masse", here's a list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder

I am sure we agree, just not the delivery.

I can't believe the idea that humanity depend on bees.

Sure, no more bees would be a very, very bad news. But humans are a pretty hardy specie. First, we are omnivores. Second, we have conquered the whole planet and live in huge numbers. And third, we are really smart. Besides cosmic scale events, I don't think of many scenarios that could damage humanity beyond recovery.

As far as i know, no, humanity won't disappear when bees would do (even though I have seen people claiming it). Sure, some plants might solely depend on bees for pollination, but there are also plants which don't and there are also other pollinators. See https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/30495/do-bees-p... for example:

    The authors of the FAO analysis concluded that the proportion of global food production
    attributable to animal pollination ranges from 5% in industrialized nations to 8% in the developing world.

That being said: it is pretty hard to predict waht would happen suppose there were no bees at all. I doubt it would be nice though.

Lets say that millions of people would die without bees then to put things into context.

Naturally Harvested vanilla currently can go for $600 dollars a pop. Although the plant was originally from Mexico, 80% of the worlds' natural vanilla is now harvested in Madagascar.

It is highly unlikely any of you have tasted "all natural" vanilla as 99% of food products in the super market utilize an artificial version of the same critical flavor compound found in the plant: vanillin.

Vanilla plantations do not have the capacity to satisfy the worlds' demand with or without insect pollination.

I can't say as I've paid much attention and I'm sure the majority of ice cream is made from artificial vanilla, but:

Vanilla beans appear to be about $6-7 each retail and $4-5 wholesale according to these random websites, despite there apparently being a bean shortage currently:

https://www.beanilla.com/vanilla/vanilla-beans

https://www.amadeusvanillabeans.com/store/one-stop.php

Additionally, Haagen-Dazs, a mass-market brand, offers ice cream with real vanilla:

https://www.haagendazs.us/products/2474/ice-cream/vanilla-be...

I sincerely doubt that it's "highly unlikely" that most people have tasted real vanilla in their lifetimes.

I also sincerely doubt that it's "highly unlikely" that most people have tasted real vanilla in their lifetimes. We are in total agreement here because I never said "lifetime" I meant highly unlikely that people have tasted real vanilla in the vanilla product that they buy from the super market. I thought the 99% statistic made that clear... Apologies for not being more detailed, but please don't put words in my mouth, I never said "lifetime."

Also thanks for specifying the price of individual beans. If you calculate the price per pound you will see that it fluctuates,.. last I heard they were $600 per pound. Just to let you know, when people go shopping for vanilla beans, most people don't buy one bean at a time, they buy it by weight because each bean can have a different weight, FYI.

In one small edge case. I doubt it would be as easy to pollinate everything by hand.

Gotta love HN comments.

"We could hand pollinate, but that would really suck."

"OMG how could you say that, hand pollination would be awful!"

"Would really suck" is a bit of an understatement.

But on the upside, >= 80% labor participation rate!

You're right, I shouldn't have made that understatement. What I actually meant was "impossible" instead of "not that easy".

It's not even an edge case. Almost all of the worlds' vanilla flavor is synthesized artificially.

The best example of hand pollination is China where the entire bee population is basically decimated. Almost all of Chinas' farms ALREADY use hand pollination.

Soy is self pollinating.

Corn, rice and wheat wind pollinate (along with a lot of other grains).

So most calorie production doesn't depend on insect pollination. Vegetables and fruits tend to though.

Physically possible? Sure. Economically and logistically possible? Doubtful.

Not even physically possible.

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