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Comment by cilea | Hacker News Reader

The same is happening to Taiwan (stuttered growth; in-fighting, etc.). The issue is deeply rooted in local power-wielding elites conspiring or opposing the ruling government. It has nothing to do democracy. The riches have already allocated some of their wealth elsewhere (see Canada and Australia), so they don't really care. It's always easy to blame it on Beijing, isn't it?

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The elites of Taiwan are mostly mainlanders (well, 1949 descended transplants who suppressed the native Taiwanese elites) who prefer closer ties with the mainland. The violent swings in Taiwan's politics between the KMT and DPP are all relate to that.

There is so much intermarriage between the 1949 Mainlanders and the Taiwanese that I don't think you can label their children and grandchildren as "Mainlanders."

I wouldn't be so sure. Last time I went in Taiwan, a friend of mine told me surprising political stuff like: "this part of town is KMT, that part is DPP", "if neighbours learn my family don't vote KMT we're in trouble" and "my grand-father is from the continent, that's why I have these facial features. So people knows I have mainland ancestors and thinks I'm KMT".

Of course it is just a data point, but that's may reveal underlying things that totally foreign for European/West way of thinking politics.

That is not true at all. There is still a lot of animosity between the two factions, even if some intermarriage has occurred (and is irrelevant given that they are genetically identical anyways, as native doesn't refer to the real Polynesian natives). Mainland-native identity politics is very real.

And, arguably, in the U.S.

The only thing left to argue about is the question of scale.

> The issue is deeply rooted in local power-wielding elites conspiring or opposing the ruling government. It has nothing to do democracy.

Seems like democracy would make this problem worse, since it redistributes power to local informal power elites.

Taiwan is a "democracy", just a deeply corrupt one.

Calling Taiwan a democracy is like labelling the Culture Revolution a democratic movement.

When elderly Chinese who actually experienced the terrible Culture Revolution go to visit Taiwan, many of them had the feeling that Taiwan make them feel young again as they saw the Culture Revolution again in Taiwan.

Endless street politics for every single change to the society, hugely divided society, corruption from both sides, people are forced to pick which side is less terrible rather than which is better, President democratically elected used its official jet to move cash to foreign countries.

Personally, I don't want such toxic Taiwan to be integrated back to China, they can run their own circus on that island so people in the mainland can look at them and learn from their mistakes.

Sounds like you've been getting all your Taiwan news from 新闻联播.

Taiwan is nothing like what you said, and to compare it to Cultural Revolution China is just ridiculous.

Taiwan is a democracy, and has been for some time. Not sure what you're saying here?

Disagree. In a functioning democracy, you have less entrenchment of power elites.

While democracy alone makes no such promise. If majority of people votes for entrenchment of power elites, that's what you get from democracy

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