Lee-Gardner Amendment would reduce supersonic fuel burn
blog.boomsupersonic.com
blog.boomsupersonic.com
(3) specifies a noise standard for landing and take-off of civil supersonic aircraft that is no more stringent than large subsonic aircraft in use for transporting passengers in the United States on January 1, 2017. [0]
That is, Boom are claiming that their engines could be narrower, if they were allowed to make as much noise taking off and landing as large passenger jets make taking off and landing. Perhaps TFA could have been clearer on this, but the reading comprehension is not strong on HN this morning.
[0] https://www.commerce.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/0238c447...
To address that issue, ISTM we trust FAA to get many things right, but previously the thoughtful regulation of supersonic civil aviation was not one of those things. If this amendment passes, it will become one of those things. Is there a particular reason not to trust FAA thoughtfully to regulate this sort of flight?
I think the status quo (no shattered windows in Chicago) is desirable and worth preserving. The FAA may regulate it sanely, but then again, given the current political climate, they may not.
Then again, if Vladimir Putin wants to break some American glass in a really roundabout way, who are we to oppose him? Perhaps he needs to brush up on his Bastiat?
[0] https://military.id.me/aircraft/can-a-sonic-boom-break-glass...
On the very first page of the PDF you linked: paragraph a, "Not later than one year after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall publish in the Federal Register a notice of proposed rulemaking that permits the development, testing, manufacturing and operation of civil supersonic aircraft in the United States."
I mean, it's right there. S. 1405 is about operating supersonic aircraft in the US, aircraft that by definition make sonic booms.
Effectively this is like a car manufacturer asking to only be required to meet fuel economy/emissions/safety standards from 10-20 years ago for a new vehicle. IMO this is reasonable. Stage 3 planes are fairly quiet, at least compared to what was flying around in the 70s and 80s. If regressing a bit on airport noise is the price we pay to go twice as fast, that's OK with me. I'd love it if we talked about this honestly, and shamed the people who whine about every tiny negative impact of human progress.
From the amendment text (https://www.commerce.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/0238c447...)
Proposed rule:
2) specifies a noise standard for sonic boom over the United States that—
(a) is economically reasonable and technologically practicable;
(b) is informed by noise levels that are tolerated in the United States for non-aviation purposes; and
(c) will foster employment in aircraft and aircraft engine manufacturing in the United States.
In other words "fuck you, we can make it as loud as a jackhammer".
I don't remember any sonic boom complaints when this or other record setting SR-71 flights over the US occurred. If you are flying in thin atmosphere the magnitude of the sonic boom at the surface should be much reduced. So, maybe it would be ok to fly supersonic at 70,000+ feet. Of course, it might be disconcerting if you were flying subsonic at 38,000 feet.
[1] https://www.google.com/amp/jalopnik.com/the-sr-71-blackbird-...
They also point out that the space shuttle flew even higher and still made booms.
I think the lack of complaints for the SR-71 may be more due to the fact that it didn't fly very often, and that people had more understanding for the need for military aviation to be supersonic.
With regard to the SR-71 making record setting flights and flying at the limits of its flight envelope to do so(100,000+ feet or "the edge of space"), I think the sonic boom at that altitude may not be noticeable to human hearing.
I know the that the SR-71 and the Space Shuttle have produced very noticeable sonic booms, but what isn't answered is at what altitude did the sonic booms become noticeable or annoying. It seems to me that with all the things that reduce the the magnitude of a sonic boom that it may be possible to fly supersonic without being annoying and slow down to subsonic to takeoff and land. It might also be possible to design the aircraft body to promote dispersion of the N-wave.
Typo edit
Also, I'm not sure the fact that the rays that forms the sonic boom are curved makes the sound itself weaker, it just takes longer to propagate down the the ground. But the fact that the sound spreads out towards the sides of the plane should help, the circumference of the shock cone at the point where it touches ground is proportional to the height of the airplane, so I'd expect things to scale down because of that?
I found and skimmed this document, "Review of Sonic Boom Theory" by K.J. Plotking (http://adl.stanford.edu/aa210b/Lecture_Notes_files/AIAA-1989...), which has some helpful information.
First, it notes that the shape of the wave does change while it propagates, but it turns out that the effect is in the opposite direction from what you suggested. That is, close to the aircraft the pressure forms a smooth S (the "mid-field" shape), but then as it moves further away, nonlinear effects causes the wave to bunch up to create the discontinuous N-shape. (See fig 1 and 2 on page 30.) So it seems, in this respect flying higher is actually worse---most research about reducing sonic booms tries to shape the aircraft to be long and thin, in order to make the waveform smoother, so we'd want there to less time for the wave to bunch up again.
Second, the document actually has a diagram of how the over-pressure depends on altitude! In fig 10 on page 34 it plots the calculated overpressure from a hypothetical Mach 2.7 supersonic transport. As I eyeball it, the over-pressure goes from 212 pounds/ft^2 at 40,000 feet (airliner level) to 129 pounds/ft^2 at 80,000 feet (SR-71 level), so it went down by a factor of 0.6. (In a cute coincidence, that 60% is almost exactly what's predicted by the scaling law eq. 25 on page 16, even though that equation is only intended for hypersonic aircraft.)
I'm not sure what to make of Fig. 10. I'm sure they are accurately plotting their equations, but the impulse for the SST is a minimum at 50,000 feet and increases for higher altitudes altitudes. The impulse for the HST generally increases with altitude. OTOH they discuss the N-wave forming in the far field and maintaining its shape, but also broadening which seems like it would reduce the impulse just like the overpressure.
The references 31-33 have alot of data. Here is a link to the first one: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/196400...
PS - If you are getting three digits of accuracy eyeballing Fig. 10, you must have gotten a much cleaner copy than I did. ;)
But yeah, figure 17 on page 26 of the document you linked seems to be exactly what we are looking for, great find! One can see exactly how the waveform changes with altitude. Moving from 42,100 feet to 70,700 feet reduced Δp from 1.82 to 1.13, a factor of 0.71.
What am I missing?
They're comparing things to current-day high-bypass turbofan jet engines, which are very wide by design and on-purpose (not because of some regulation).
Sure, part of the high-bypass allows for quieter noise levels, but it's also about efficiency at cruise altitude and speeds.
Turbojet engines designed for supersonic speed are already much narrower, well at least the nacelle is, or lack-thereof (again, by design -- optimized for fast speeds, not because of some regulation).
As far as I'm aware, the reason there aren't supersonic civil aircraft is because of the enormous cost involved in operating them, and the restrictions of supersonic flight over mainland due to shock wave damages, etc... not the size of the engine as appears to be asserted in this article.
So, any new legislation only needs to target lifting the over mainland restrictions (and somehow change physics to not have shock waves...), but you can't legislate-away the enormous costs involved in building and operating supersonic aircraft.
> So, any new legislation only needs to target lifting the over mainland restrictions
Which the legislation does...
> but you can't legislate-away the enormous costs involved in building and operating supersonic aircraft.
To the extent the costs result from legislative mandates, and are not inherent in building supersonic aircraft, you obviously can.
> To the extent the costs result from legislative mandates, and are not inherent in building supersonic aircraft, you obviously can
The problems with cost are real, but it's more from flight restrictions than drag (subsonic flight over mainland to final destination using a supersonic-optimized engine is going to be very inefficient).
We can just look at the Concord as a prime example. Barred from supersonic flight over mainland, it became economically infeasible to continue to operate only trans-oceanic flights (I believe all 3 operators ran it as a loss-leader, of sorts, due to the novelty). Even then, when approaching the destination, the Concord had to revert to subsonic speeds, and ditch the shock wave while still out at sea. Unless there's some magical way to generate only minute shock waves from large passenger aircraft (I'm highly skeptical here), you're going to break people's windows etc, or you're going to burn up a bunch of fuel and wind up with the same issues all over again.
The other lesson learned from the Concord is, there's very few cases where people need to be somewhere that quickly, and are willing to pay the high ticket prices to do so. One can almost always book an earlier flight, for a substantial savings (I'm also highly skeptical there's any fuel cost savings with supersonic flight as the article seems to claim).
No one is arguing that that isn't the case; as the article points out, the legislation addresses both the flight restrictions and the noise rule that the article claims functionally requires engine designs which increase drag.
Noise rules are there for good reason (nobody likes broken windows)... and I'm sure there's military applications for quieter supersonic engines, but we don't have any (either because we haven't tried, or, more likely, because it can't be).
I suppose I'm just highly skeptical they can do both, or either, in reality. Sort of, having their cake and eating it too.
I'd love to be proved wrong here though, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.
The engine noise rule at issue has nothing to do with broken windows, and the change is to use the same engine noise level restrictions as subsonic aircraft, rather than stricter rules for supersonic aircraft.
This changes that to force the FAA to do the complicated thing and be like "okay in these locations at this altitude and this size plane" and "at these locations at these altitudes and that size plane" and maybe "never at this location" or maybe "only during local business hours " and we end up with a book of "well tailored" regulations. Which while complicated might at least allow for Boom to operate inside the US, which opens up a lot business.
Here's what the Concorde sounded like at altitude, from the ground: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbPh2llw0-M
Unless the shockwave's shape (distorting coarseness of the wave front to soften the impact of sound waves; think: tweaking the volume knob to fade-in/fade-out a noise floor with gradual easing, rather than slamming a door as hard as you can) or size (how much air gets pushed around, overall) is altered by how a moving body breaks the sound barrier, a sonic boom will still be loud, and reach just as far.
When you crack a whip, the sound is just as loud, no matter how much energy your arm expends making the motion.
They're narrowing the engine to get less drag and setting the noise to the same levels as conventional planes.
Skeptical. I know what narrower means but noise is a result rather than a parameter.
If this is the case write a Medium article about how BoomSuperonic is able to make turbofans go to Mach 2.2
What I don't understand is the engine size rule. I'm not aware of any regulation on the size of an engine air inlet....
[1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Sp...
"Current engine noise rules for new supersonic aircraft are more stringent than those for the existing subsonic fleet. By setting our engine noise to the same levels as existing subsonic airplanes, we could make our engines produce so much less drag that we would save 20–40 percent on fuel, depending on whether you use this year’s or next year’s rules as a baseline."
Curious if they've hit a wall in their aerodynamic design and need this to move forward.
Also, don't be fooled. The smaller test aircraft, if it ever flies, will have a much lower sonic boom than the larger airliner. Sonic boom is largely proportional to aircraft weight.
(And yet they have the hubris to talk about how much a ticket will cost)
True, but
> and are trying to frame it as a fuel efficiency issue
No, they are trying to frame the changes they want to engine noise regs as a fuel efficiency issue; that's a separate rule change from (in the same legislation as) the one removing the overland supersonic flight ban.
It's not a size rule, it's an engine noise rule which ends up (per the article, I don't know enough about the relevant fields to confirm this) requiring wider engines which end up producing more drag.
I know that's a metaphor, but it got me thinking. Can someone more learned help me out: does air behave in a non-Newtonian manner at supersonic speed?
I'm anthropomorphizing and oversimplifying (airflow over a wing can be locally supersonic even in subsonic flight) but I don't care because I enjoy thinking of this in terms of information flow.
Not even close.
Edit: Removed the previous comment text here as I misread/misunderstood. This isn't just about the cost of the fuel, it's also about what you can do with the same amount if you burn it slower.
Of course the fuel costs per person per mil of a bus are less than a van.