Comment by trowawee | Hacker News Reader

Comment by trowawee | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

It broadly falls into two categories. The first, rarer case is trading beanballs (pitches that hit the batter). Pitchers routinely pitch inside, or close to the batter, to get him to back away from the plate (making it harder to hit pitches that are on the side of the plate opposite the batter). Sometimes, though, the pitcher's command isn't as good as he thinks it is, and he hits the batter when he tries this. If this happens a few times (once or twice can be an accident; more is seen as reckless/intentional), the other team's pitcher might throw near or at a batter on the first pitcher's team. Sometimes, in this case or the second version, the pitcher who throws at someone is the person targeted for retaliation, but this is complicated by the fact that, in one of the two divisions that compose Major League Baseball, pitchers do not have to hit, which means you can't directly target the person who is targeting your teammates.

The second, and more common, is a perceived violation of baseball's unwritten rules. There are a lot of these, but they mostly boil down to "don't have too much fun" and are exceedingly stupid. Things that are seen as violations of these unwritten rules include:

- Hitting a home run and watching it go over the wall

- Taking too long to run around the bases after hitting a home run

- Taking too long to go to first base after drawing a walk

- Flipping your bat after a hit

- Stealing a base while you're up by a lot or down by a lot

- Bunting for a hit (trying to tap the ball with your bat rather than really hit it) to break up a no-hitter (a game where a pitcher has not surrendered any hits, a very rare occurrence)

Basically, pitchers are sensitive babies and they will throw a 95 MPH projectile at you if you hurt their feelings by being better than them. Sometimes breaking these rules will result in an exchange of hit-by-pitch events (you hit my guy, whether arbitrarily "justified" or not, so I hit you/your guy). Bizarrely, this is tolerated, but if the hitter decides he wants retaliation in an equally violent way (say, by walking up to the pitcher and punching him), this is considered completely unacceptable. I love baseball, but it's a really dumb sport in some ways.

"Basically, pitchers are sensitive babies and they will throw a 95 MPH projectile at you if you hurt their feelings by being better than them"

First of all, I basically agree with your assessment here. But I'll try to argue the other side, anyway: it's not about being better than them; it's about "showing them up."

The idea is that, look, you just bested me. Good for you! But to draw unnecessary attention to it or to celebrate it ostentatiously is unsportsmanlike and (one might even say) a personal affront. What was simply a fair act of competition has now turned to gloating or even ridicule.

Rightly or wrongly, it's the perception of impropriety that calls for retaliation.

And my response to this devil's advocacy:

A) many of these same pitchers will yell/pound their gloves/clap/point to the sky/cross themselves when they successfully strike someone out or get out of a tight situation, which by their own logic suggests that someone should throw a 95 MPH projectile at them as soon as possible

and

B) even if someone bests you in a competition and then gloats about it (even if they gloat about it excessively! to absurd degree!), that does not give you license to throw a 95 MPH projectile at them. You should try to best them next time within the rules of the game.

and

C) many of the situations described above are not in fact "gloating" or "unnecessary attention" or "ostentatious" except by the absurd standards of American baseball. All of the people on earth who, right now, could hit a home run against a major league player could probably fit comfortably in a high school gym with space left over. And even among that subset, most who have the opportunity achieve it incredibly rarely. If you hit a home run, watching it go over the wall and smiling is not excessive. That is a reasonable reaction to hitting a home run in major league baseball! That is a very cool and rare thing to achieve. It is worth celebrating.

Essentially, none of it "calls for retaliation". If the pitcher doesn't want the batter to watch a home run they hit off of him, he should throw better pitches that do not allow the batter to hit a home run. And if he can't do that and he wants to throw a tantrum and physically attack the batter instead, he should be ejected and suspended.

I have to say I'm not really moved by language like, "95 MPH projectile" that seeks to exaggerate the risk involved. Your argument would be stronger without it.

Literal description is not an exaggeration.

Yes, but descriptions that reduce complex interactions to their simplest form -- e.g. baseball is "grown men hitting a ball with a stick" -- is an old trick to conceal complexity for dubious motives.

It's true that baseball is, in fact, grown men hitting a ball with a stick, but it isn't merely that. We all understand that that description is designed to ridicule something that is much bigger than its parts.

So, yes, yours is a literal description, but it's also a clumsy and unnatural account that's crafted to manipulate the reader.

Which is fine, as far as it goes; I just think your argument would be stronger without it.

> There are a lot of these, but they mostly boil down to "don't have too much fun" and are exceedingly stupid.

I completely agree, and they're probably one of the worst parts of the game.

>Stealing a base while you're up by a lot or down by a lot

Never heard this one before. Up by a lot I can understand, but what's the rational for not stealing when you're down by a lot?

I honestly don't know. I just remember Kerry Wood getting really mad about it one time - I assume it's because it seems pointless (although obviously, it could be huge, depending on what happens afterwards), but stolen bases allowed get scored against the pitcher?

Not sure about unwritten rules, but it's usually not a very good idea anyways. If you're down by a lot, you're going to need so many people to get on base that you're going to have ended up scoring anyways, so it's generally not worth the risk of an out unless you think that the risk of a double play is higher than you getting thrown out.

  baseball's unwritten rules.

Yeah, like whether or not you're supposed to run on a pop-fly. That was the first and last rule I bothered to learn.

The real rule is that if someone else doesn't know the rules, their entire team flies into a blinding rage, and ostracizes them without explaining the reason for the rule.

And then I never played baseball again.

That's not an unwritten rule. That's a strategy. If you're on base and you run on a pop fly, you're likely to get out before tagging up and give the other team a double play. Not sure why the team getting the double play would be mad though...

  And then I never played baseball again.

I was really good at parks & rec basketball. I was so good that sometimes I'd score for the other team, too.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com