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Comment by arethuza | Hacker News Reader

Here in the UK I'm generally amazed at how fast they are - slowest part is typing my PIN in if that is required (some places still require it or if the transaction size is over the limit for contact-less).

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I'm guessing the OP is from the U.S. A few notable differences in the U.S.: they've only been rolling it out for a few years and they use a signature instead of a PIN.

This is a suspicion, but I think they're slower in the U.S. because a) they're just slower b) the UX is worse. You insert the card, wait, then it asks for a signature (presumably because not all accounts, vendors, and dollar amounts require a signature?). From what I've seen overseas you insert the card, type in your PIN (in parallel to card processing)--so it appears to process more quickly because you're not waiting.

Huh? How does the signature thing work? Do you input your signature into your signature into the device somehow?

I believe you give a physical signature and its compared to what's on the back of the card.

Most likely this. I'm not sure why card readers in Germany don't ask for the PIN every time but when they don't you're generally asked to sign the cashier's copy of the receipt and they'll verify the signature against what's on the card.

However not only will the cashier generally let you simply put the card next to the receipt while you sign (because this makes verification easier for them) but it doesn't seem like they actually apply any scrutiny: the signature on my card is very different from the one I use for signing these days and it never raised an eyebrow.

FWIW, I've signed for card transactions in all kinds of places across Germany, from small shops to large hotels. I can't figure out what triggers the decision between PIN and signature but I swear I've used either in the same place at different times for equivalent amounts.

The transactions with PIN are more expensive for merchants, but the merchant isn’t liable. They are done via the EC network.

The transactions with signature have lower fees, but the merchant is liable, and you’re actually authorizing them to do a Bankeinzug via the Elektronisches Lastschriftverfahren.

EC transactions are done instantly, ELV are done overnight.

It is never, ever compared in the US. In fact, I haven't signed the back of a credit card in years, and the only time I did was when I was in Europe where every cashier thinks they're a forensic handwriting specialist.

Not in the US.

For most terminals the small screen is actually a touch screen that (in the US) has a stylus attached to sign with.

However as you would expect, the signature is completely worthless and basically everyone signs with a simple scribble.

I draw little pictures for the cashiers at a store I frequent.

Yes. Above a dollar amount depending on the store. But basically no one compares it the card and inputting it on the pad is so crude you might as well just write an X (which my signature isn't much more sophisticated than anyway these days).

We have chip and pin too but only on debit cards. My Amex doesn't require a signature for anything under 50 dollars and can be very fast depending on the store. I think a lot of the blame is on legacy software. Some places have the chip readers but make you swipe first only for it to say insert card.

The chip and pin speeds have gotten better but still a ways off.

Never swipe before entering your PIN. If you do that, they can clone a card for use in ATMs, and withdraw your money as untraceable cash.

Connecting via the chip does not reveal enough information to reconstruct a magnetic strip for an ATM to accept, particularly if the machine is a total fake. But if you swipe the magnetic stripe, you can easily clone it exactly.

Don't the ATMs use the chip? All the ATMs I've seen here in Brazil either use the chip exclusively, or use the magstripe to identify the account but use the chip to confirm everything (not only withdrawals, but also simpler things like looking at the account balance).

Even better in Australia - A$100 limit on 'PayWave'/Contactless transactions. All you have to do is tap your card and wait a few seconds.

UK has contactless, but lower limit and from my recent visit, seems to not be as common.

Correct. I'm from US (and should have put that in the title). Just got back from the UK, where the chip process is so fast (even including PIN entry).

Same in France - in the past you used to have enough time to finish filling your grocery bags while the transaction was being authorized. But for... maybe the last decade or so, transactions most often get authorized within a second of validating your PIN.

Plus now most shops have contact less card readers. Which is funny when you think about it, because it's the same speed / security than the swipe from 40 years ago, except limited to 20€.

I wouldn't say it's the same security - presumably the contactless chip is much harder to copy than the old magnetic stripe.

Contactless transactions generate a one-time use code, they're much more secure than your standard magnetic swipe.

No they just have different issues.

They both allow the card to be used when stolen. Magnetic band can be duplicated. Contact less allow people with a portable modified machine to request transaction without the owner knowing.

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