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Comment by vanderZwan | Hacker News Reader

A big difference with Ryanair and other low-cost airlines is that Norwegian stays away from dark UI patterns in their website/app, and also doesn't use the "make it uncomfortable enough that you consider paying more, but not so uncomfortable that it stops you from using it" tactics in general. I think they'll be much better at customer retention.

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Perhaps where Norwegian and Ryanair compete on the same routes (which isn't many). But even then, if there's more than a €10 difference in the headline price, most LCC flyers will pick the cheaper one regardless. I think just like with blindness to banner ads on websites, most consumers quickly learn to avoid the dark patterns during check out.

To be honest, Ryanair's new web app is actually not that bad compared to the hostile site they had a few years back.

  Ryanair's new web app is actually not that bad compared
  to the hostile site they had a few years back

Which is roughly when they refocused on customer-service, when their previous customer-hostile approach generated enough negative publicity to threaten their business model.

Threatening their business model is overstating it a bit I think. More like they had already successfully picked all the low hanging fruit and in order to maintain their stellar (multi) year-on-year passenger growth they needed to start trying other things (customer experience improvement, more focus on business flyers, serving more primary airports, dipping their toes in to offering a few connecting flights).

Short-haul LCC traffic in Europe is becoming a mature market and so budget airlines are on a drive to find ways to grow beyond simply offering "insanely cheap prices". However, it's important to remember that a bad/hostile customer experience didn't stop Ryanair getting to ~100 million passengers a year (note: not that I'm defending that!).

As I stated in another comment: I'd never pick Ryanair over Norwegian, even as LCC flyer. I had flights with Norwegian where paying €100 more than with Ryanair was well worth it for the time I'd lose going to/from airports and the hassle it'd be to be sure I'd done everything against the dark patterns of Ryanair.

I really can't see myself getting a Ryanair flight to anywhere where I could get Norwegian, airBerlin, or other LCC that aren't as cheap as "Fly for €6.99" but at least treat you well.

You aren't kidding. We did a family vacation in Europe last year, and relied primarily on LCC's to do side trips. Buying tickets was like clicking through a Facebook clickbait story - packed with ads and confusingly named links that would add charges to your flight.

You pay extra for: checking luggage, carrying on luggage, selecting your seat in advance, selecting any seat that's not a middle seat.

And then -- for most LCC's, you MUST print your boarding pass at home, or pay a 50 Eur service fee. And many of them make you check in your own luggage, all the way to the belt.

> And many of them make you check in your own luggage, all the way to the belt.

I call this a plus. Waiting to have somebody check your baggage when you could just do it yourself is a vast improvement.

> And many of them make you check in your own luggage, all the way to the belt.

Is this uncommon in the US?

I'd much rather enter the airport, casually walk up to a touchscreen, print my boarding pass and label and drop off my baggage than queuing up in a long line when the check-in counter opens.

In the USA, it's not uncommon to check in at home and/or print your own boarding pass. It's far less common to print and attach your own luggage tags - United does it at SFO. However, US airline regs require that an employee checks your ID and compares it to the boarding pass before accepting luggage - so there's always a human in the loop.

However - a lot of Americans still aren't comfortable with this level of self-service, and want to go to a full-service counter.

What I was referring to specifically with LCC's is that they have zero personnel at the check-in counter -- self-checking your luggage isn't a nice option, it's mandatory. And there's not even a kiosk for printing your boarding pass (that would cost money to maintain, best to have you use your own paper and toner at home).

>(that would cost money to maintain, best to have you use your own paper and toner at home).

Or... you can board with your phone :)

> You pay extra for: checking luggage, carrying on luggage, selecting your seat in advance, selecting any seat that's not a middle seat.

Well, you do. But you're subsidising regular LCC users like myself :) I never bring check-in luggage, don't care where I sit and as regards printing out passes, most (including Ryanair) have decent apps that negate the need for that.

N.B. This applies to shortish trips, to places in Europe. If it's a long haul trip or long duration, I'll consider other airlines.

They actually offer some premium stuff in the price. Nice seats and free inflight wifi inside Norway (has been there for a few years).

Norwegian has better airport locations too.

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